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Welding = Parkinson's Disease?

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
I've never seen or heard about this, but apparently there are a lot of lawsuits about it and one suit is coming to a head that could have all sorts of legal ramifications for machine shops, the cost of welding rod, and the costs of all things that are welded.

Can you imagine the new safety regulations that would come down from OSHA? Or price increases on the cost of welding supplies if this lawsuit is proved to be true?



ap_small.gif

Lawsuit claims welding fumes hit nerves


By M.R. KROPKO, Associated Press Writer1 hour, 30 minutes ago

In a closely watched case unfolding in federal court, a jury is being asked to take up an intriguing question that has confounded many medical researchers: Can welding fumes cause neurological diseases such as Parkinson's?

The lawsuit was brought by a former welder who suffers arm tremors and other movement problems that he says could be Parkinson's. Ernest G. Solis, 57, of Corpus Christi, Texas, is seeking unspecified damages from four welding rod makers.
It is the first trial among about 3,800 lawsuits from around the country that have been consolidated in federal court in Cleveland. Solis' case could set the ground rules for the other lawsuits.

At issue is whether manganese — a chemical element found in vitamin supplements, tea, nuts and grain, as well as the fumes from burning welding rods — can at high exposures lead to tremors or shaking, poor balance and difficulty walking and swallowing.

Companies that make welding equipment argue that any link between fumes and Parkinson's has not been established, and that in any case, warning labels and welding safety equipment minimize any risk.

"It's a really hot topic," said Alan Ducatman, chairman of community medicine at the University of West Virginia. "A lot of people weld and there is manganese in welding rods. Manganese is very bad stuff at very high doses. The problem is defining when doses are high enough to cause a neurological disease. That's what the research is all about."

Lawyers representing the plaintiffs point to a recent $1 million verdict for a welder in an Illinois case as an examples of what such lawsuits could cost the industry. Similar cases have gone to court individually around the country, with varying results.

Dr. Edward Baker, a University of North Carolina professor and director of the North Carolina Institute for Public Health, testified as the leadoff witness in Solis' case that extensive research has linked manganese fumes that emit from welding rods to neurological disorders.

The Parkinson's Disease Foundation says welding fumes are just one of the suspected but unconfirmed causes of the disorder, which afflicts nearly 1 million people in the United States.

"We don't know what brings it on," said Robin Elliott, the foundation's executive director. "If we knew that, we could know the cause, and then we'd be closer to finding a cure." James Antonini, a toxicology researcher for the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, is leading research on the effects of welding-type fumes on rats to try to pin down a link.

"There's definitely not a final conclusion on it," he said. "There is a question whether manganese is even available enough in welding fumes to cause an effect."

In the scientific journal Neurology a year ago, Dr. Joseph Jankovic, director of the Parkinson's Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic at Baylor University's College of Medicine, questioned whether reliable or convincing evidence exists that welding is a risk factor for Parkinson's disease.

Jeff Weber, associate executive director of the Miami-based American Welding Society, said a study the group paid for two years ago did not draw a conclusive link to welding and Parkinson's disease. "My general impression is there is no great fear among most welders," Weber said.

Labels on packages of welding rods — the long, thin sticks that become the substance of a weld — warn that fumes may be hazardous but do not draw any link to Parkinson's. At factories, construction projects and repair shops, some welders use fans to blow away fumes. Others wear breathing devices.
 
This has been kicked around since the 1960's, but I never heard how it got started. I have never heard or read about any scientific evidence, but like most urban legends, it takes on a life of its own, and if said enough times, it will gain some momentum. I have seen similar things happen with preservatives in dog foods. After all the investigation, no evidence was ever provided to back up the ridiculous claims of birth defects, but all the hysteria led to a industry wide ban by the manufacturers. Just like chocolate and hyper activity in kids. Never been proven, but there have been a lot of studies that have debunked this myth, but a lot of parents still believe it is true.
 
Junkman said:
I have never heard or read about any scientific evidence.
Bear in mind that there STILL is no confirmed cause and effect proof that smoking cigarettes cause cancer. We all belive it to be true. We have lots of evidence that it is a contributing factor, but there still is no absolute proof.

That said, what say you with regards to Welding Rod?

Bear in mind that tobacco is legally exempt from all sorts of regulations and is protected in many ways. Therefore the legal protections that tobacco companies (sort of) hide behind are not available to suppliers of welding supplies.
 
Both my Aunt and my Uncle suffered from Parkinson's disease, neither of them were welders or had anything to do with it.
 
[FONT=&quot]Why would the manganese from welding rods cause Parkinson’s any more than drinking water with very high levels? There are many parts of the world were manganese is high in water supplies. [/FONT]
 
My FIL is now hospiced with Stage 4 Parkinsons .. he was a welder and a wrought iron worker his entire life.

Parkinsons and it's sibling, Alzheimer's ... is worse than death. Trust me.
 
daedong said:
[FONT=&quot]Why would the manganese from welding rods cause Parkinson’s any more than drinking water with very high levels? There are many parts of the world were manganese is high in water supplies. [/FONT]

I don't know. But it seems like that is one of the best questions to ask. Another might be why do some people who weld get Parkinsons while other never get it?

What I do know is that (at least here in the US) we are so modernized in so many ways that we live our lives in and around the chemical industries. So what our bodies would normally be exposed to is far from what our bodies are actually being exposed to. We fertilize our lawns with chemicals. We poison bugs in our kitchen with chemicals. We build chemical factories next to our neighborhoods.

How could you tell where the manganese source was that caused one persons Parkinson's disease is beyond me given all the chemical residues, toxic smoke, and other things we are exposed to every day in modern life?
 
B_Skurka said:
I don't know. But it seems like that is one of the best questions to ask. Another might be why do some people who weld get Parkinsons while other never get it?

Everyone that has drunk water has died, so with that as a accepted fact, drinking water will ultimately lead to death. Same logic......

Parkinson's is not limited to people that were welders, and not all welders get Parkinson's disease. Same for many of the diseases of life. How about all the people that have died through the centuries of Parkinson's disease long before welding came about? What are we going to say caused their disease? This is just another ploy by attorneys to fleece the system and fill their pockets at the expense of US manufacturing companies.
 
Junkman said:
This is just another ploy by attorneys to fleece the system and fill their pockets at the expense of US manufacturing companies.

This is the truth. We need to reform this aspect of the legal system.

These lawyer scumbags are dragging this world down. They are in a self feeding industry. They create issues to fight over and subsequently we all end up paying them to play their games.

I know a lot of lawyers and can say that they are largely oblivious to the damage they are doing. They think they are doing "good". It is a serious issue that no one has the balls or willingness to deal with. Of course, the fact that most of our politicians are lawyers doesn't help either.

PB
 
Well here is the update.

The Welding Rod manufacturers won the court battle. This is apparently the first of THOUSANDS more that are yet to come. Sort of reminds me of the cigarette lawsuits.

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Jury finds welding rod makers not liable


By THOMAS J. SHEERAN, Associated Press WriterTue Jun 27, 10:05 PM ET

A jury on Tuesday found makers of welding rods were not liable for the health problems of a former civilian worker at a Navy base in a ruling that could influence thousands of similar claims, some headed to trial in coming months.
Ernesto G. Solis, 57, claims years of exposure to welding fumes at his job at a Navy base in Corpus Christi, Texas, damaged his health because of exposure to manganese within welding rods. Scientific research has been at odds over whether such exposure can lead to neurological disorders such as Parkinson's disease, which diminishes movement and speech.
Solis, who has a tremor in his right hand, had his hands folded in front of him when he left the courtroom. He declined to comment.

The Solis case is the first to go to trial of about 3,800 cases filed nationally that were consolidated in 2003 before U.S. District Judge Kathleen O'Malley in Cleveland. The cases seek to draw a link between manganese contained in welding rods to harden a weld and neurological impairment in welders.
The next trials are scheduled for Aug. 14 in Union County, Ark., and Oct. 2 in Jefferson County, Ark., said Eric Wetzel, a plaintiffs' spokesman. The next welding trial before O'Malley could begin in the fall.
There are more than 10,000 welders with pending federal and state court claims of neurological problems from welding, Wetzel said.

Wetzel said the test case was hand-picked by the welding industry.
"The vast majority of cases filed against the welding industry are far stronger than this one," he said. "We're disappointed but not deterred."

Eric Kennedy, a member of the defense's legal team, said his side was pleased with the verdict, which he believes addresses the core issue in this case and others pending before the judge.
"This industry has believed in their warnings back to 1967. The warnings are what's common to all these cases," Kennedy said. As for other case cases, "They are still scheduled and we're still going to meet them head-on."

John Beisner, an attorney for welding rod manufacturers, issued a statement countering that it was the plaintiffs' lawyers who chose Solis as a test case.

A jury was asked in Solis' case to determine whether the defendants distributed welding rods with inadequate safety warnings and instructions. The jury ruled that the companies did not.

The 10-person jury began deliberations last Wednesday after more than two weeks of testimony and legal arguments.
Defendants in the Solis case were Cleveland-based Lincoln Electric Holdings Inc.; Troy, Ohio-based Hobart Bros. Co.; TDY Industries Inc., part of Pittsburgh-based Allegheny Technologies Inc.; and ESAB Group Inc., a Florence, S.C.-based subsidiary of London's Charter PLC. TDY stopped making welding products in 1992.

Solis' lawyer, Scott Bickford, told jurors in closing arguments last week that his client suffers from manganese poisoning, which has symptoms similar to Parkinson's. He said warning labels on welding rods do not make it clear that the fumes can cause brain damage.

He suggested the jury order compensation within a range of $132,000 to about $1.8 million. Solis also sought punitive damages.
Defense lawyers told the jury the evidence shows that Solis does not suffer from a consistent tremor and that his health problems are not linked to welding. The defense said welding rod packages have sufficient warning labels describing fumes as hazardous.
 
Breathing any smoke can't be good for you over time. Have you ever watched someone weld? If not, stand behind them and watch the amount of smoke that billows around the welders head. Another thing I noticed is what I blew from my nose after an 8 hour day of welding. :eek: I think it would be a good idea for anyone who welds to use ventelation equipment if possible, or at least a good fan to dissipate the smoke and fumes.
 
Trakternut said:
If anything, he should sue his employer for not providing good 'nuff ventilation to remove the smoke/fumes.

Not trying to offend anyone, but that attitude is IMHO a serious problem in our society. When bad things happen, a lawsuit is the first thing many think of. People seem to want to blame someone else for their misfortunes. In the case of the former iron worker, should the former employer(s) be punished for not preventing an unforeseen problem (assuming that poor ventilation in the workplace caused the Parkinson's)?
 
I don't know about Parkinson's disease, but welding stainless all day yesterday gave me one hell of a headache today. I'm not sure if the two are related, but I seem to recall getting one the last time I burned a lot of stainless. :goodnight
 
Dargo, no idea if it is anything to do with it, but I get a headache welding if the darkness setting is too low, at about 9 its headache time. Shade 11 is nice, but a little dark, its a tradeoff.
I wonder if the glare of the (presumably) shiny stainless has an effect?
 
ghautz . . . I do agree with you that people tend to look for places to blame their misfortune. If there is a link between welding fumes and Parkinson's then the warning lables on the welding rods were deemed to be enough of a warning according to the jury. Why an employer would not be blamed is beyond me? Why not blame the Union Apprenticeship program for not warning the student welders?


Dargo . . . life gives you a headache. Quit being a baby :yankchain: On a serious note, I have no clue about the fumes from S.S. But thanks to this Forum, I found out that welding GALVENIZED steel is very dangerous and can kill you! I'm glad I posted the inquiry before I tried it.:applause:
 
B_Skurka said:
But thanks to this Forum, I found out that welding GALVENIZED steel is very dangerous and can kill you! I'm glad I posted the inquiry before I tried it.:applause:

Well, duh, it pops and spatters like crap too! Some guy brought me a broken anchor and wanted me to weld it back for him a long time ago. It was galvenized and my weld looked like $hit and it gave me one hell of a headache. That was about 20 years ago and my dad called me a dumb$hit for trying to weld anything galvenized without grinding it all off first. The trouble is that when you grind it, you also burn some of it just the same. I don't weld galvenized anything and I still can't weld overhead aluminum. :o
 
Galvanize is zinc and zinc is poisonous when you weld it. It sometimes takes 20 years to see the effect, but when the dead brain cells start falling apart, people start making posts like Dargo... :hide: :hide: :moon:
 
I have welded galvanized steel often, when building most things for outside I buy galv material, I try to get the best ventilation I can when welding but obviously I am still exposed to some fumes. I take the risk there must be a compromise or simply you don’t build some things, the houseboat had miles of galv material in it. I would never deny the risks but I know dozens of guys that weld galv on a regular basis as an occupation, Many of these would have no choice or no job..

[FONT=&quot]Dargo welding over head with a mig on aluminum is easier than steel in my view, yet to try it with tig
the like below may be of some interest [/FONT]
http://www.iza.com/zwo_org/Applications/Continuous_Galv/030609.htm
 
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