VW Industrial Engine Build

[Snowcat Operations]

I am planning on rebuilding my VW Industrial engine. I would like some suggestions as to what components. I would like to make her at least a 1775cc with Forged pistons. I would like a single carb like what Mtnmogs has but not sure off hand what it is. Can I use a standard vw engine rebuild kit on the industrial engine? What manufacturer of kits should I go with? Also I would like a very heavy flywheel 7 pin. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for any help.

 

[Lyndon]

You can beef it up to about 65 or 70 HP fairly inexpensively. The block will accomodate 1650 Cylinders and Pistons, mess with the compression ratio a bit, and the carberation and manifold. It won't require any work on the case or fly cutting of the cylinder holes. If you have the pistons, connecting rods and crank balanced it will run faster, smoother and not go out of 'Tune' as readily. All this for less money, and it will still be very reliable. >
If you want to go bigger displacement you are better off to buy a brand new Mexican Case, and build up from there. The New aftermarket cases have bigger oil passages and more "Meat" where it's needed.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

I like the idea of 1650 cylinders. What carb have you used that you like with a 1650 displacement?

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Should I also replace the crankshaft bearings?

 

[Lyndon]

Gene Berg and his Son wrote some good manuals on building up "Hot" VW motors. Highly recomended reading if you want to mess with hot-rodded VW's. Because ST4's are geared so low one hardly needs more torque, just more RPM's to get enhanced preformance. My old 63 had it's original 116 motor and would do 22 MPH on a hard surface. The 116 motor is the 40HP/1200CC industrial version of a "40 Horse". They came out before the 126 motor, and only actually generated 35 HP. They were not an especially good candidate for rebuilding. The later 1600 industrial(126 motor) had some real improvements and came stock producing over 50 HP. On My '63 I put a "Big Bore Kit" that increased the displacement from 1192 CC to around 1450 CC, changed the intake manifold and put a carb a couple sizes larger and it ran great. It probably produced around 45 HP. When I showed it at VW Meets there were no tell tale give-away signs that it wasn't "Stock". Gene Berg, or John Muir(of Idiot Book Fame)might have spotted the alterations, but no one else ever did!

 

[Snowcat Operations]

I have the 1600 version. Or the 126 Industrial.

 

[Lyndon]

The net improvement was that the old 6 Volt '63, would now do 30+ MPH and would keep up with some of the "Big Boys"(Actually a higher speed than most Snow Cats will do, "Stock") and it appeared to be ALL ORIGINAL.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

HOLY CRAP! 30 MPH! I would like to cruise at about 15 MPH max.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Picture of my Industrial engine

 

[snowbird]

Not only a compact neat-looking engine, but look at that clean floor! You put my floor to shame. The only thing that would probably want to eat off my floor would be spiders and ants (and dust mites).

 

[mtmogs]

Nice looking engine. I have the 126 as well, recently rebuilt but not enlarged. I am saving it for another project probably. I put in a newly built 1915cc engine. The carb is a single Weber Progressive. I don't think we can fit the dual carbs in our engine compartments. Be sure to get the manifold that accommodates the heat riser tubes, and get new tubes. It's a long travel from the center carb to the heads, and the manifold may ice up without them. The Weber Progressive is a nice 2bbl carb. They will probably run right out of the box, but make sure it's jetted correctly for your altitude.

I am planning on rebuilding my VW Industrial engine. I would like some suggestions as to what components. I would like to make her at least a 1775cc with Forged pistons. I would like a single carb like what Mtnmogs has but not sure off hand what it is. Can I use a standard vw engine rebuild kit on the industrial engine? What manufacturer of kits should I go with? Also I would like a very heavy flywheel 7 pin. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for any help.

 

[BigAl]

Mike ? Does the industrial engine have a Oil Filter ?? That is the only thing that I dislike about my rebuilt VW1600 that I have ready for the KT3 .It does not have one . I am told , you have to split the engine case to do this filter conversion and I already have mine all back together .
I got great prices on new pistons ,jugs, engine tin ,etc. There is a place that has anything and everything you can imagine for the VW motor located in Sacramento.
I also have quite a few parts from my other vw motor . There yours for the taking .

 

[mtmogs]

BigAl,

No, the industrial engine doesn't have a filter. There's no visible difference between the industrial engine and the standard type 1 engine as far as I can see. Probably just beefier bearings and such.

A filter is a good idea. There's no need to split the case to add one, you just have to get it in line of the oil flow, that is to say downstream of the oil pump to receive full oil flow. There's a variety of ways to "full flow" the engine case. Some folks tap the outlet hole in the oil pump and plug it, and then tap an outlet in the face of the oil pump. This will pump oil out of the engine case and through your filter, cooler, etc. Now you need to get it back into the case in a location where that filtered oil can do some good. You can tap and pull one of the engine plugs and then install a hose barb. Anyway, I'm not going to go into anymore detail because you don't have to go through all that.

I installed a full flow oil pump made by CB Performance (http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=197). The cover has an inlet and an outlet already tapped (3/8" npt). To install it all you'll need to do is remove the engine pulley, remove the front engine tin that sits behind the pulley. You'll see the oil pump cover behind that, remove the 4 nuts holding the cover, and pull the oil pump. You should buy an oil pump puller for the few bucks that it costs. If your time is time is truly worth nothing, then you can fabricate one.

I had to do some drilling and grinding on the new pump as it's substantially thicker than the old pump cover, and the studs didn't extend all the way through it. That's it. Add some fittings and hose, get yourself an appropriate sized filter housing and filter either from a bug parts place or NAPA, etc. and your good to go. One word of caution. I've read of filters blowing out during cold starts as the viscous oil is under high pressure. You can get a thermostat sandwich adapter that sits between the filter housing and filter. It will bypass the filter until the oil warms up.

I just went through all of this, and I'm sorry I didn't document the process with photos! Good Luck.

PS. I added the full flow pump with the engine in the Snow Trac. Easy, no need to pull then engine. I imagine you could do the same in your KT*

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Not only a compact neat-looking engine, but look at that clean floor! You put my floor to shame. The only thing that would probably want to eat off my floor would be spiders and ants (and dust mites).

That is the floor under my garage tent. Its "My" garage for now. Not much longer.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Nice looking engine. I have the 126 as well, recently rebuilt but not enlarged. I am saving it for another project probably. I put in a newly built 1915cc engine. The carb is a single Weber Progressive. I don't think we can fit the dual carbs in our engine compartments. Be sure to get the manifold that accommodates the heat riser tubes, and get new tubes. It's a long travel from the center carb to the heads, and the manifold may ice up without them. The Weber Progressive is a nice 2bbl carb. They will probably run right out of the box, but make sure it's jetted correctly for your altitude.

Thanks Mtnmogs. I like the idea of a single carb. I ran dual Dalorttoes on my old vw bug when I was in high school and they were a bitch to keep tuned. Thanks for the info.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Excellent post Mtnmogs. BigAl I think you got your answer!

 

[mtmogs]

Glad to help, Mike. I'll see if I can grab some pics.

 

[BigAl]

Excellent post Mtnmogs. BigAl I think you got your answer!

Yes I do and thanks guys . For the amount of work I have done on the motor its worth doing this !

 

[Smiler]

I noticed that you still have the 6 volt generator on your engine… Are you going to keep it a 6 volt or convert it to a 12 volt alternator? I know when I was in High School working on VW’s that was one of the first things to get changed.

 

[Bulldog1401]

Not only a compact neat-looking engine, but look at that clean floor! You put my floor to shame. The only thing that would probably want to eat off my floor would be spiders and ants (and dust mites).

Yeah, snocatops keeps his kitchen pretty neat.... Now the bedroom..thats a certified paint booth!!

 

[Deadly Sushi]

I am planning on rebuilding my VW Industrial engine. I would like some suggestions as to what components. I would like to make her at least a 1775cc with Forged pistons. I would like a single carb like what Mtnmogs has but not sure off hand what it is. Can I use a standard vw engine rebuild kit on the industrial engine? What manufacturer of kits should I go with? Also I would like a very heavy flywheel 7 pin. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for any help.

Well you need, oil, pistons, gaskets, buncha tools and sparkplugs and wires

 

[mtmogs]

BigAl,

I took some photos of the oil pump using the old 126 industrial engine longblock as a prop.

Here's a shot of the engine with the pulley removed. Unscrew the 2 screws that hold the breastplate or whatever they call the tin behind the pulley.

 

[mtmogs]

You'll see the oil pump cover lies behind the breastplate. Yours may just be a square steel plate without the cooling fins. Remove the 4 nuts holding the pump cover plate. FYI, the blue arrow shows where some volks tap the case for an oil return line.

 

[mtmogs]

Here's a shot of the oil pump with the cover removed. It's just a simple gear pump with only 2 moving parts. Gotta love the simplicity for such a critical component. The brown crud is likely Permatex Aviation gasket sealant. Great stuff. You can get it at the auto parts store. One mistake that the builder made here was spreading it too liberally. The annular groove drains into the suction side of the pump (yellow arrow). It's designed to suck back any oil that was on its way to leaking out past the pump cover. If you clog the groove with sealant, then you're defeating the purpose. All that fine German engineering thrown right down the crapper!

 

[mtmogs]

For ease of illustration, here's a shot of the oil pump removed from the case. To pull the pump, you'll first need to pull the pump gears. Just grab each with your fingers and pull them out, they should slide out easily.

 

[mtmogs]

Next, insert the tangs on the pump puller into the inlet port (blue) and outlet port (yellow). Note that the tang is bent, It didn't start out that way. Some force is required to extract the pump!

 

[mtmogs]

With the tang in the port holes, tighten the U-flange of the puller against the case. Tighten the nut until the pump body pops free from the case. Viola!

 

[mtmogs]

Remember to use 2 gaskets when installing the new pump - one between the pump body and case, and one between the pump cover and body.

With the tang in the port holes, tighten the U-flange of the puller against the case. Tighten the nut until the pump body pops free from the case. Viola!

 

[mtmogs]

So why was I monkeying with the pump in the first place? Well, one thing to keep in mind if you're planning on upgrading the engine to a larger, non-stock displacement, is that it will run hotter!

In the early 70's VW engineers decided that the original style upright oil cooler inside the fan housing (a design that worked well on 1200 and 1400cc engines in cooler climates) needed an upgrade because of cooling issues. The photos show the oil cooler as it sits in the fan housing.

 

[mtmogs]

I initially kept the old-style oil cooler design for my new 1915cc engine, half expecting that there might be problems. Problems I did have! Actually, that little oil cooler did a great job cooling the oil. I never saw above 200º F, even breaking trail in deep snow up a steep grade.

The problem was that waste heat from that efficient little cooler was dumped right on cylinders #3 and #4. The photo shows the cooler with the fan shroud removed. Cool air enters the cooler (blue arrow), and is dumped on cyls #3 and 4 (red arrows). I was seeing cylinder head temps in excess of 400º F with out too much effort. That's entering a danger zone. It was killing me to have all these new horses and have to lay off the gas pedal so as to not cook the heads!

The solution was to remove the cooler from the fan shroud and plug the hole. For oil cooling, I added a full flow oil pump that routes oil through an external cooler. More on that in a bit. The result is that my #3 head never sees 400º anymore, which leaves more power at my disposal. Remember, I didn't have an oil cooling problem, just a waste heat problem. VW's remedy was to place the cooler offset from the fan shroud, with ducting that directed the waste heat out of the engine compartment.