NTSB preliminary time line partial from the video.
6:29
was audible informing Pat 25 that traffic just south of the Wilson Bridge
6:37
was a crj at 1,200 ft circling to Runway
6:44
33 at 84629 the crew received a 1,000 ft
6:51
automated call out at 84647 DCA tower cleared other jet
6:59
traffic on Runway 1 for departure with no delay at 84729881180
7:29
itic automated traffic advisory stating traffic
7:36
traffic at 84742 a radio transmission from the
7:41
tower was audible directing Pat 25 to pass behind the
7:49
crj at
7:59
beginning to increase its pitch sounds of impact were audible
8:06
about 1 second later followed by the end of the recording a CVR group consisting of
8:14
party representatives from the NTSB PSA Alpha and the FAA has been
8:23
convened the group is currently working to transcribe the entirety of the CVR
8:29
recording verbatim thank
8:36
you we will take some questions at the end but we have some additional details we definitely want to brief you on today
8:42
I want to clarify something that was I think presented by ntsp at some form specifically around air traffic
8:49
control the Washington DCA tower was communicating out any transmission on a
8:56
VHF and UHF frequency they would any transmission would come
9:02
out on both bands the Blackhawk was transmitting out with a UHF
9:09
band while the crj jet was transmitting out with a
9:15
VHF to put that in context both the airplane and the
9:20
helicopter would hear any air traffic control but they would not hear the
9:25
other aircraft or helicopter conversely if they were transmitting
9:30
out I bring that up because we are now working through the transcript of the air traffic control and many people have
9:37
heard online different recordings those do not those do not contain the UHF
9:45
radio Transmissions what they're hearing is the VHF recorded on certain software
9:52
programs as we synchronize the timing on that we hope to be able to release it tomorrow we do have it we're working
9:59
through the synchronization because the specific time will be very critical a few updates in regard to the
10:06
Blackhawk helicopter we can verify it was on a training flight that would utilize night
10:13
vision goggles we do not know at this time if the night vision goggles were actively
10:19
being worn nor what the setting may be further investigation should be able to
10:25
let us know if that occurred and what it may Factor it may play in the overall
10:32
accident we do know that the and we announced the combination
10:37
CVR and the flight data recorder was extracted last night from the
10:43
aircraft when it was brought to our lab and opened there was a water
10:49
intrusion again this is not uncommon if you recall in the crj that cockpit voice
10:56
repor also had a water intrusion it is going through the same process of iodized water until it's put into a
11:03
vacuum oven we still are very confident we will have that
11:08
data on the Blackhawk we can confirm that we are looking into a
11:15
priority Air transport and that's where you hear Pat that on the prior day
11:24
pat1 was in close contact with a republic Air flight the Republic airflight rejected the
11:31
landing and did a go around the reason we are bringing this up is our data
11:37
currently shows there was over 1,000 ft of separation between those two
11:43
aircraft 1,000 ft is a good safety barrier obviously the pilot made its own
11:49
decision in rejecting The Landing we just wanted to bring that fact out it will be considered in the overall
11:55
evaluation of the this accident
12:01
so now let's go on
12:12
controllers at the time of the accident there were five controllers in the air
12:18
traffic control tower cab at DCA one was a local controller which was
12:25
handling not only helicopter but fixed wi aircraft craft another and the local controller
12:33
also would be handling arrivals and departures close in airspace and the use of the
12:38
runway there was a ground controller which was handling all aircraft and vehicles not on the
12:46
runway in addition there was a local assist controller this person is responsible
12:52
for assisting the local controller in any type of actions that are needing reviewing data scanning the field a
13:00
multitude of different things you will not hear the assistant controller on any of the ATC tapes but we can confirm that
13:07
person was in the cab in addition there's an operation super supervisor who has direct
13:14
oversight over the tower this is someone who manages everyone that's involved in the
13:20
operation along with an operational supervisor in
13:25
training that leads us to confirm there were five people in the tower at the
13:30
time of the accident at this time we have interviewed the local controller the
13:36
ground controller and the local assist controller we anticipate having the
13:42
interviews with the operation supervisor and the supervisor and training
13:48
conducted no later than Monday evening and for a little bit of context
13:54
this is this is a controller's worst nightmare it hits everyone that works in
14:00
that cab and knows them very hard these interviews take a long time not because
14:06
that's there's that much talking but there's several breaks that occur for emotions just to be able to compose
14:13
themselves to talk about what happened we want to be thorough if we need to go back for additional information we
14:19
absolutely will we are getting full cooperation and access to those individuals we need and we hope again to
14:26
have them completed no later than Monday
14:32
now we're going to talk a little bit about altitude and I'm going to preface this and we're going to try to work
14:38
through your questions but I want to be very clear our team has had some internal debate on releasing one part of
14:46
this and whenever I explain it I hope you will understand why when we received the recorders from
14:54
the crj we were able to Define an altitude of where it was very close to the time
15:00
of impact that is a data point we feel very comfortable
15:06
with we also have an initial set of information in regard to what was being
15:12
seen on the cab in the control tower we have not finalized that and
15:19
need to get more granularity to it and we currently don't have the readout from
15:24
the Blackhawk I put all that into context for you in that whenever I give
15:30
you some altitude information one part of the three pieces we have defined the
15:36
other another part we feel fairly confident but need to get more
15:41
information and a third we don't even have
15:47
currently the crj based upon the data recorder at the time of impact was at
15:54
325 ft plus or minus 25 ft this is from the
16:01
belly of the crj the crj itself is 20 ft and 8 in
16:08
from the wheel to the top of the tail so from the belly the crj at time
16:14
of impact was 325 less or minus 25° and for those who follow this
16:21
closely that is a corrected altitude it is based on the adsb data and the flight
16:28
data record our preliminary review of the what the tower cab was
16:34
showing on the data screen that would have been in front of the controllers was 200 ft near the time of
16:42
the accident again this data is preliminary tomorrow we feel very
16:51
comfortable that we'll be getting the additional data sources that will confirm precisely what it would have been on the
16:58
screen at the time and I would also caution you there's typically in the cab
17:03
on that screen it may be a 4 to 5 Second refresh rate but obviously this is
17:09
something that we're going to be looking at very closely the third prong of that is the helicopter
17:16
recorders between those three whenever we have those data points
17:22
finalized we feel that we'll be very comfortable in saying exactly what altitude this occurred at and I know
17:29
that's been a lot of speculation you may have a few questions on it but I want to
17:34
caution we're trying to give you what information we have and we verified at that
17:41
time with that we'll take some questions just one
17:50
second man from so you said that the
17:55
altitude and the recorder recorded of the of the crj was it trying to P up the
18:03
that were saying the the question was the altitude that was read from the adsb
18:09
and the voice reporter was trying to pull up I can tell you at a one point very
18:14
close to the impact there was a slight change in Pitch an increase in
18:20
Pitch that is something that we will get you more detail on but it was an indication of an increase in Pitch
18:29
uh thank you Todd trible with box um so are you also saying that there was a 100
18:35
foot discrepancy between what the air traffic controller was seeing on the screen in front of them and what the the
18:42
height the altitude of the plane there 100t difference so the question is was
18:48
there 100 feet difference between what we found the plane to be operating at and the air traffic control C I'm saying
18:55
the initial data we have on the control tower cab says 200 ft would have been
19:02
visualized this is a fairly good estimate but it needs to be finalized I shouldn't say estimate it's a fairly
19:07
good initial read it needs to be finalized and again the
19:13
crj was operating at 325 ft plus or
19:18
minus 25 and how common is it that the two aircraft would be operating on
19:24
different frequencies with the same control T the question is how how common would it be that the two aircraft would
19:30
be operating on separate frequencies it is completely common military operates on one frequency civilian on Another
19:38
We're just trying to clarify that because you're only reading some or hearing some things online so we're
19:43
trying to get out and dispel some myths yes sir Mr with DC news now at point you've
19:51
given us the crj but can you speculate on the altitude of
19:58
this point we cannot spec the question is can we give any information on the altitude of the
20:04
pat we cannot at this point obviously an impact
20:09
occurred and I would say when an impact occurs that is typically where the
20:15
altitude of both aircraft were at the moment but again when we have the data
20:21
from the recorder we will be able to give you more specific and and just to follow up if I may sir uh there have
20:29
been reports can can you comment on reports that P may have flown above its
20:35
Max limit so the question was can I comment on reports that P may have flown above
20:43
its Max limits no because I haven't heard that and I don't try to look at
20:48
the media that much so by not saying that I'm not denying but I just haven't heard it we haven't discussed it I'll
20:54
ask the investigator in charge do you have any information on that
21:00
yeah I can provide just a little bit of context the pat 25 was in with was
21:06
within the lateral boundaries of a helicopter route the ceiling of that
21:12
route was 200 ft as member Inman said we do have not
21:19
got the data out of the FDR for the Blackhawk at this time but that's what
21:24
we do okay we're going to go down here uh David Kaplan with box 5 here in DC um
21:32
you mentioned as you walked through the timeline that there was a broadcast over the cockpit of traffic traffic traffic
21:40
uh can you talk about uh what indications if any you have that the planes anti-collision system was working
21:47
uh it's my understanding that that broadcast goes out if the system has been activated I just can you comment on
21:53
what you've learned about the anti-collision system the question is about the traffic traffic traffic that
21:58
was heard on the cockpit Force reporter I can say this we are defining what is
22:03
inside of each system and what was their outputting because of the unique nature
22:09
of military aircraft we need additional specialization which we have but for
22:14
right now we're trying to present you with what we've heard so we need further information to be able to find why it
22:19
was indicating traffic traffic traffic yes the night goggles how will you
22:25
determine if they were wearing the night goggles or not the question was how will we determine
22:31
if they were wearing the night vision goggles or not part of that will be based and we already know during the
22:37
extraction of the bodies uh how they were presented and
22:43
what was around them I can say that impact was very
22:48
significant and so it will take additional analysis of their helmets the
22:53
attached areas we're looking to find if the night vision goggle bags whenever we extract the aircraft are they empty are
22:59
they found in the debris field there's a lot of different variables we need to find out before we determine that yes
23:05
thanks Chase Willam foxs I know that was minutes before impa that there was a
23:11
Runway switch theyt to 33 how routine is that and is that enough Le time pilot
23:18
and other traffic in the area to be aware of you know a change in the pattern okay so the question was in
23:24
regard to the term you used was Runway switch and we briefed this yesterday the the
23:31
crj was on approach to Runway 33 they' been brought in that way as they were
23:36
coming in they were asked by the air traffic control could they accept sorry let me reverse that they were coming in
23:43
on Runway one as they were on approach the air traffic controller said can you accept
23:48
Runway 33 that is not an uncommon Occurrence at DCA it's creates an arcing of the flight
23:56
path so it's very it's very normal Pilots were actually were able to
24:01
discuss it they accepted it they appear to be on a proper at least lineup on at
24:06
that time so right now we'll evaluate it with all the other facts and data but
24:12
it's it is what it is at this point I guess yes
24:27
sir the question was the Staffing at the time of the actual accident with the five individuals I have not gotten an
24:34
update from the air traffic control people I know the primary thing we wanted to get was exactly that and
24:39
there's been discussions because again typical is can change based on the day
24:44
of the week the time the weather so I we will not categorize anything as typical
24:50
right now until we can present it in a better fashion yes sir Aon NBC News if I heard you correctly you said that the
24:56
power was able to see the at 200 Tower at 200
25:04
not at the time the question was what was uh it was
25:11
reading the airplane and could it not read the helicopter it could read the
25:17
helicopter and the reason why I'm saying it could and this is again getting into more specific
25:22
information the uh the definition that's needed for us to evaluate that further
25:27
will be downloaded tomorrow do you want to answer a little bit on how those control Towers or I'm happy to
25:33
continue okay um those monitors obviously assimilate different pieces of
25:40
information so our initial read was showing that we're giving you the 200 ft as indicative of the
25:47
crj I don't want to speculate specifically on the
25:52
blackhaw sorry it's reverse right come on
26:02
so as previously stated we know that the FDR and data provided indicated that the
26:10
crj was at 325 ft plus or minus 25
26:15
ft we also initial preliminary data right now
26:22
indicates that on the tower's radar scope that was available to the
26:30
controller initial data indicates that that would indicates that he may have
26:35
seen 200 ft that needs to be verified our our ATC group is working it we will
26:41
have more data available but those are the initial indications no indication
26:47
black on that screen at that the data that I'm talking about the
26:53
200t data that would have been available on that radar scope that was the
26:59
Blackhawk the 325 foot that we've given you is adsp
27:05
data FDR data other data combined to get in a um accurate altitude of the crj 325
27:14
plus or minus 25 the radar data where that helicopter is down at 200 feet it
27:22
has less Fidelity um so we're our team is looking into that but I think it's important to
27:30
note that this is a complex investigation there's a lot of pieces
27:36
here our team is working very hard to gather this data um make sure we as
27:42
member imman has said understand why this happened sorry can I hang on I'll call
27:50
in people just can you just confir what your colleague just said that the crj
27:56
was sh at7 black 200 so the question again and I'm
28:02
going to try to say this one more time the crj at the time of
28:08
impact Based on adsb data and the voice in the data in the flight repor shows
28:16
that that airplane was positioned at 325 ft plus or minus 25
28:22
ft on the radar scope in the cab our preliminary review shows shows that the
28:28
Blackhawk helicopter would have visualized at 200
28:35
ft it's not as defined that is preliminary we will get more significant
28:40
information we wanted to present the 325 plus or minus because we knew that we
28:46
have good certainty with it but without presenting it with the radar scope information or with presenting that it
28:53
could cause some conflict so I'm going to be very careful to make sure we still have a lot more more work to do these
28:59
are one of thousands of data points and will be hundreds of thousands of pages we're trying to release the information
29:06
as we know it and make sure we're we're giving the best information that's accurate and learning from
29:12
it yep yesterday you talked about spending time with some of the victim
29:18
families can you describe any upate
29:23
today questions about spinning down with the members families um he I spent several hours with him
29:30
today there's more there some new there's some that have been there for 3 days there some
29:36
that want to give us hugs some that are just mad and angry they're just all hurt and they
29:42
still want answers and and we want to give them answers and the most devastating thing I guess today was they
29:50
watched the news last night they know their loved ones recover they're
29:55
thinking is it going to take longer am I not going to be find my loved one how this affect
30:01
it that's hard I mean it's horrible it's horrible and no one have should suffer this so yeah it is hard on them they
30:08
have a lot of questions they know they haven't been through this unfortunately we have a lot of experts we've done a
30:14
thousand but that doesn't mean it's not completely new to them what's really horrible though is
30:20
that these things are happening you know I keep a I keep a challenge coin when I first
30:28
got to the NTSB they ask you know it's challenge when you handle people as a sign of gratitude and respect front of
30:34
it has the seal and the name said what do you want to put on the back this was on the front door of our
30:40
training center where the tww was for many years from tragedy we draw
30:46
knowledge to improve the safety for us all that's what we're doing right now
30:52
deal with tragedy but we need to improve safety we need 200 plus recommendations fixed we need people to take
30:59
action unfortunately at some point all of you are going to be gone we're still going to have the investigation open
31:04
we're going to make recommendations we go to East Palestine a community that gets devastated still nothing's happen
31:11
we have several hundred recommendations open for Aviation you want to do something about it adopt the
31:16
recommendation of the NTSB you'll save lives get off and do
31:22
something I don't want to have to meet with another of those parents like that again it's not fair could be your family
31:29
sorry I didn't mean to take it out on you it's just it's just hard
31:35
sorry um yeah um I have two and I I just want to
31:41
follow up because I I want to make sure I understand the the elevation question
31:46
correctly the flight data recorder on the crj is showing 325 plus or minus 25
31:55
that that's correct right the question is is and i' apologize I've said this three or four times on the
32:02
crj the flight data recorder that has been localized from the adsb data and
32:08
other is showing the time of impact it was at 325 plus or minus 25 ft okay the
32:16
200 ft inside of the air traffic control cab was for the helicopter is that the
32:22
question again the what the preliminary data that we have not validated yet yet
32:28
and they're still trying to verify was that the radar scope was showing the helicopter at 200 ft now again you can
32:35
have we're not saying plus or minus because we don't really know that it's not as granular we will have the exact
32:41
data set tomorrow tomorrow evening we knew you would have some questions so please be responsible in reporting this
32:47
we need more info but we know that some of that information is coming out and we're trying to provide it no more sorry
32:54
I've answered the same question several times sorry question go ahead this is just a a clarification point on this
33:01
topic I understand what the radar scope in the ATC was showing and and what the
33:08
Black Box showed you from the crj I guess the question is what would explain
33:14
the discrepancy which appears to be 100t when clearly they they hit each
33:21
other so the question is what would explain the discrepancy that's what our job is is to figure that out out that's
33:28
what we're doing that's the reason we're giving you information to dispel some Mis some information that may be out
33:35
there we're the gold standard across the world because we tell the facts and sometimes we have to give a little bit
33:41
something preliminary so that you don't have an improper picture that's what we're trying to do thank you thank you
33:47
very much the 45C delay that you described where was
33:56
that for
