Tucker Tracks Info

[Eric L]

It seems that there are a whole bunch of Tucker track configurations. The intent of this tread will be to try and gather as much info as possible, and maybe get it organized in some way to help all of us. This includes belted track (Terra too) info as well as you guys with conversions, Tucker or otherwise.

Tucker guys, post up any info you can dig up, especially technical stuff and and year/model info. take pics of your stuff and post 'em.

My '65 443 has 17" wide (outside to outside) grousers and 2" dia. rollers, the cross bars are triangular and welded to the end forgings.

 

[Melensdad]

What is the difference between the belted track and the Terra Track?

 

[Eric L]

This track is on a '80 542, looks like a 1600 series of similar vintage. The grousers are fabricated from plate and the cross bars a welded in a "T". this is a wide track, approx 28", and it seems these could benefit from the center support I've seen on older wide track units, as several were bent, thus causing alignment issues on the track rollers. I was told that these were standard equipment up to about 1985, the belted tracks were an extra cost option that I guess most folks opted for.

 

[Eric L]

What is the difference between the belted track and the Terra Track?

I have not been able to get close to a Terra, but maily the tracks are all rubber including the "gousers"

Terra..

 

[Briarpatch]

My 1976 1644 has bogies and rubber belting. Each track has 32 grousers, 4 belts and 6 bogies. The cat was ordered that way in September 1975. I have attached a picture of the set-up

Edit by Bob: I resized your photo so it would fit into the thread and added it. FYI, most photos must be downsized to fit into the discussion threads but large photos fit into the Photo Gallery.​

 

[Eric L]

My 1976 1644 has bogies and rubber belting. Each track has 32 grousers, 4 belts and 6 bogies. The cat was ordered that way in September 1975. I have attached a picture of the set-up

I see yours has the older "slider" along the top to guide the track, anyone have an idea when they eliminated that and went to the 2 extra bogies on ea. side of the sprocket?

Eric

 

[aksnocat]

I think I can add something to this discussion at least on the belted steel grouser side. Though I own some steel ladder tracks, I really have no real experience with them.

Belted tracks I can speak to. Got my '77 in '83 and have rebuilt the tracks in many ways several times in that time.

My '77 1742 originally had 28" wide tracks that consisted of four 4.5" belts and 32 grousers. At some point Tucker decided that they could open up the grouser spacing just a tiny bit and get away with only 31 grousers. That was cool, because after a replacement of all the belts all the way around, I had an extra 4 grousers. http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/images/smilies/g0606/specool.gif

There's been an evolution in grousers too. As in all of the 28" tracks I've seen, my original 28" grousers use 8 bolts, 2 per belt, to attach the belts. They have the center 2 bolts welded in as they're inside the bracing at the center of the grouser. Later grousers had 4 or, later, 6 bolts welded in as the bracing got bigger.

Another evolution was the transition from using 70 (?)-degree angle iron to 90 degree for the main member of the grouser. The 6-bolts-welded-in style, I think, came in with this style.

The rusty '78 1744 that is my parts cat came (from the factory, I believe) with grousers that were made from square 2" tube. They had no sidehill cleats at all. Tucker also made belted tracks that they referred to as tundra tracks that put the belts to the outside of grousers which were made of 1"x2" flat steel bar.

Backing plates for the belts have evolved too. My original ones are made from flattened tube. At some point the tube they used got larger in diameter - the backing plate got wider. Then later they went to a backing plate made from formed flat plate.

And then there's discussion of sprockets. My original sprockets are 7-tooth, pointed tooth style. Sometime later Tucker introduced the 7-tooth, square-tooth sprockets that I recently learned came in a standard (1 3/4"?) and a 2" (thick) version. One variation of the pointed tooth sprocket had a gambrel (barn)-shaped steel core, a variation on the one-pitch point of the original.

But wait! There's more. Tucker also built cats with 9-tooth sprockets. I've never seen one of these in person, but from the photos I've perused, it appears they're pretty much using the same grousers as the 7-toothers other than they've cut away one end of the center plate (the widest part of the grouser, front to back) that rides on the idler wheels to allow the closer spacing of the grousers.

I'd take pictures of all of this, but my 'cat's 12 miles away. At some point...

BSkurka said:
<What is the difference between the belted track and the Terra Track?

Belted tracks use seperate belts and grousers bolted together with bolts. They have a connectors that allow taking the track off. Terra tracks are like big, burly snowmobile tracks. They're endless, and so require multiple movable idler wheels (both ends of the track carrier, unlike only one end of the belted type carrier) to create enough slack to remove the track.

Terra tracks come in several tread patterns. I've seen a pretty aggressive "grouser" pattern that looked similar to my steel grousers. I've also seen a nearly smooth 'tundra' pattern.

Someone suggested that the Terra tracks are "all rubber". I'd suggest that they've got to have some kind of internal stiffeners molded into the rubber, most likely steel.

Eric L said:
<I see yours has the older "slider" along the top to guide
<the track, anyone have an idea when they eliminated
<that and went to the 2 extra bogies on ea. side of the
<sprocket?

I'm not sure when the damper wheel system came in, but I think it showed first in the smaller cats sometime in the 80s - the 1300 series - where the shorter 4-wheel carriers would make it easier to make it work.

I've never run a damper wheel cat, but from what I hear the tracks are MUCH quieter than the slider type.

Sorry about droning on so long, but well...once you get the pump primed, sometimes it doesn't want to shut off. I could go on about track carrier differences/evolution, but I've gone on long enough without some photographic backup. More to come...

 

[Eric L]

Heres a "damper wheel" setup. year and model unknown

 

[Grooming Snow]

When you talk Terra Tucker ,your talking a Tucker with rubber tracks, I have seen 2 different tracks, the block type cleat that looks like ------- and the fish bone cleat that looks like this zzzzzzz. I'll try to find some Pic of them and post them. So if you see Terra it should have rubber tracks Oh Ya there are the
belt type track with rubber bolt on cleats to

 

[Eric L]

Here's a link to another thread along this subject.

Track adjusting tools

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=5251&highlight=track+tool+tucker

 

[dseymour]

The line sheet I got with my 1967 Tucker 342 said there were two different tracks to be installed. The front set were V tube tracks and the rear were ice tracks. The first photo is the V tube track, the 2nd is the ice track. The line sheet for this machine is in my photo gallery.
Picture #3 is the snowtread track off a Tucker Terra. A bar track is also available for the Terra. All these tracks are reinforced with fiberglass rods.

 

[Eric L]

The line sheet I got with my 1967 Tucker 342 said there were two different tracks to be installed. The front set were V tube tracks and the rear were ice tracks.

I looked at the line sheet. Interesting...

I've seen the mud tracks before... but what do the "snow" tracks look like?

Eric

 

[Vance]

I'll add a little info now and more when I can better pics and measurements.

My 1971 1342 (which is (I think) a 442 with a 1975ish rubber track conversion) has 24inch wide belted tracks. The consist of 2 - 6 inch belts and of course 24" grousers.

[note: most of the later Tuckers had the 28" 4-belt tracks like those posted before and on the blue snocat below.]

Mine has the forementioned slipper system and 5 bogey wheels along the bottom. (I'll have to get length and grouser count later)

One thing to note is that my cat has an assorment of old, newer, new, and even homemade grousers. I also have a couple new spares that were made (trimmed) from the 28" variety and the belt holes redrilled. My cat has seen lots of service and many of the grousers have been welded or hardfaced.

Updates later...

Vance

 

[Eric L]

Seems somewhere I read that there were different size track rollers and/or sprocket rollers for the steel track units, like a early vs. later model type thing

​

Can anyone shed some light on this? I think I saw it on snocat.net which seems to have died altogether.. I saw one of the rigs (Roger's 442) show up on ebay awhile ago.

Eric

 

[Eric L]

Below is a thread from the Tucker forum that I pasted together, it's kinda tough to read like this, but the topic is track and track roller related. It's an oldie so I X'ed ot the phone #'s. some of the responses are from our members, so if it looks like deja'vu, thats why.

Eric

bvhydro
lots o steel track parts
Thu Dec 15, 2005 14:19
70.218.161.89

hello:

i have one working 1972 542 aluminum cab flat bed (318 cid/5 spd manual) plus two wrecks (avalanche victims) with a whole bunch of parts (includes about 10 extra full rolls of tracks w/ rollers). ex hydro power company. located montrose colorado. sell whole lot only. you can be king of tucker steel track parts.$6000 or BO
Anonymous
Re: lots o steel track parts
Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:43
66.101.26.135

Just tryig to get a hold of you..

Howard
970 406 XXXX

bvhydro
lots o steel track parts
Thu Dec 15, 2005 14:19
70.218.161.89

hello:

i have one working 1972 542 aluminum cab flat bed (318 cid/5 spd manual) plus two wrecks (avalanche victims) with a whole bunch of parts (includes about 10 extra full rolls of tracks w/ rollers). ex hydro power company. located montrose colorado. sell whole lot only. you can be king of tucker steel track parts.$6000 or BO

970.729.XXXX

Anonymous
Re: lots o steel track parts
Sat Dec 17, 2005 05:32
66.101.26.135

Got pictures?

k
lots o steel track parts
Fri Dec 16, 2005 22:06
209.247.222.81

So, I just gotta ask. Are all these track parts for the 543 or will some fit the 343A or 443A?


bvhydro
Re: lots o steel track parts
Sat Dec 17, 2005 21:38
70.213.114.39

no. the 500 series is the wide track 3/4 ton and runs a track about 28" wide; axles are IH on the older machines and dana 60 on later machines (either axle is a full floater). the 400 series is a 1/2 ton machine and uses a narrower track (about 18") on a dodge half ton pickup axle (not a full floater). the 300 series is the 2 track kitten and uses an even narrower track (about 14") with clutch dogs on the end of a dodge car axle/ chain drive to the track sprockets.

the rollers are the same on the newer 400 and 500 series machines (and yes, you can still get them in the mcmaster carr catalog; they are a common indudtrial track roller; the latest versions are permanently lubricated and eliminate the tightening shoulder and replace it with a hex socket where the old needle lubricator hole used to be). they also have the 14" wheels for the rubber track tucker folks.

kw
lots o steel track parts
Mon Dec 19, 2005 18:09
209.247.222.89

I have a 343A and it has 4 tracks. They do use the wider track rollers than the old standard series 400s.
How bout an actual reference for those McMaster rollers??
kw


bvhydro
rollers
Mon Dec 26, 2005 17:12
70.57.53.241

tucker rollers come in at least 3 sizes. the mcmaster carr catalog has them all. you will have to measure your best original roller and then select the steel one closest in size in the catalog. they are permanantly lubricated, so the passionate familiarity tuckerista have with the needle greaser can be reduced.

if you use a hard plastic roller (the guthrie "idaho" type) or plastic slide block as a steel roller replacement, do not put two in a row, but use them every second or third position. they fall off the nose track much more easily than steel rollers (but are quieter and do not wear the rails as badly). use the plastics across from each other as well.


Craig VA
Rollers
Thu Dec 29, 2005 02:42
66.230.86.220

I have looked numerous times and can not find a roller with the correct diameter without being too wide. How about a cople page numbers from the mcmater carr catalog. Appriciated your effort.

Craig

k
rollers
Fri Dec 30, 2005 17:42
209.247.222.89

I've looked at that catalog and other catalogs. I cannot find anything even close. Not only that but plastic,metal or flanged do not seem to match up. You can buy the cages and .375 ball bearings from a bearing supply and rebuild them yourself if you can get the smusher caps.
In addition,.. as I measure the roller, the inside diameter is 1.75 inches and if youi can get a roller of that diameter with a 1/2 inch shaft approximately the right length, youi could just insert this into the roller... maybe!!
Perhaps you might tack weld it in place but the bottom line is that I've not been successful in finding them. I have considered putting out a bid to a chinese manufacturer and get a price on manufacturing them.
They seem willing to do this on a preliminary basis.
kw

Craig VA
rollers
Sun Jan 1, 2006 20:42
66.230.112.141

Please not China. I sent(2)track sections, links and a new and used roller to a fellow name Pat Foster about a year and half ago, he indicated he would try to figure out how to make rollers, but never have heard from him other than when I emailed to ask if he got the package, which he did. I wrote Pat recently and asked to get the parts back and am waiting for a responce. Maybe I will email mcmaster carr with some specs to see if they can turn something up.

Craig

k
lots o steel track parts
Mon Dec 19, 2005 20:33
209.247.222.95

My 343A uses the 2.1 inch diameter with a flange. The diameter at the outer flange is 2.65. The rolling surface is .95" wide. I can't seem to locate anything like this in mcmaster.

 

[1jbuck]

Here is a few pictures of the tracks on my 542.They have atotal of 32 tires for four tracks it uses 2 4" belts and 2 6" belts for each track with a total width of 36" per track.Each track is 7' long and that makes the total width of the machine just under 12'.But it will go in the deep powder with little or no effort.Bill Guthrie has told me that this conversion sound to him like a sierra conversion but they are no longer in business.however this setup could be fabricated very easily.I am just about ready to re belt the tracks so if anyone wants more pic i could take some with the tracks off

 

[Melensdad]

I am just about ready to re belt the tracks so if anyone wants more pic i could take some with the tracks off

The 500 series Tuckers are pretty rare because they had tracks that were roughly double the width of the standard Tucker pontoons. I think it would be great if you started a new thread that showed the process of rebelting your tracks from start to finish. Rebelting is a task that every snowcat owner, of every brand, will face at one point or another in the life of the snowcat. Your project will apply to everyone who is faced with the task.

 

[Boston]

Asknocat in post #7 mentioned one system that employed 1x2 inch steel backing plates inside the tracks, and no grousers, called it a "tundra track. Sounds promising for what I need. Does anyone have pictures ?

 

[Blackfoot Tucker]

Boston, Here's a link to a page on Tucker's website showing the different track options they currently offer: http://sno-cat.com/docs/track page 2013.pdf

I think it's been fairly recent, but in addition to the snow cat market Tucker has started selling machines in the agricultural market. For some of these applications they want a track that's essentially smooth.

If you haven't already done so I'd encourage you to call Tucker and chat with Jeff Godard or Dan Dressler. These guys have tons of experience and they're generous with their time. They may also know of a used machine for sale that's not advertised.

 

[Boston]

Yah I found that page a few days ago but my old decrepit computer won't open it. I also talked to Dan, on Friday I think it was, very helpful guy, but those new Tuckers are wildly out of my price range. Oh and buying a rolling chassis wasn't an option. Still to expensive and they wouldn't sell it to me anyway. I did learn a lot in the short time I had him on the phone tho.

I'm not sure I'm still in the game. But solutions are beginning to present themselves. Oh and I did find a nice machine, for under ten k, less than 2500 hours, looks to be in good shape.

 

[Boston]

The rusty '78 1744 that is my parts cat came (from the factory, I believe) with grousers that were made from square 2" tube. They had no sidehill cleats at all. Tucker also made belted tracks that they referred to as tundra tracks that put the belts to the outside of grousers which were made of 1"x2" flat steel bar.

Backing plates for the belts have evolved too. My original ones are made from flattened tube. At some point the tube they used got larger in diameter - the backing plate got wider. Then later they went to a backing plate made from formed flat plate.

This post kinda caught my attention as I was trying to find a solution for one of the park service requirements that all snow coaches have non metallic tracks

Seems to me that the 1x2 bar stock placed on the inside of the track would make a great backer plate for nylon grousers like whats available for some of the really heavy construction equipment. Means you could drive on whatever surface and not have the damage issues that seem to concern some folks using the metal grousers. I've got a chunk of Nylon at the machine shop I was thinking of carving a sample out of. I'll post a picture or two once I get it done. Just playin, but maybe you guys would find it at least curious.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

Here is a few pictures of the tracks on my 542.They have atotal of 32 tires for four tracks it uses 2 4" belts and 2 6" belts for each track with a total width of 36" per track.Each track is 7' long and that makes the total width of the machine just under 12'.But it will go in the deep powder with little or no effort.Bill Guthrie has told me that this conversion sound to him like a sierra conversion but they are no longer in business.however this setup could be fabricated very easily.I am just about ready to re belt the tracks so if anyone wants more pic i could take some with the tracks off

I really like that set up double road wheels like that and a less aggressive grouser would make a real awesome tundra track set up.

 

[Boston]

First attempt at a nylon snow track. This ones pretty wide, 4.3 inches. It has the tread bolts counter sunk about 1.2 inches, so as it wears its got a long way to go before it hits metal. I think carriage bolts would work best as the square shank would set itself in the material upon tightening and pretty much stay there till you hammered it out at some point, "down the road". This particular sample would work best with a 1x2 flat stock backing plate fitted with bogie guides. Nylon blocks properly positioned either side of the flat stock on the inside of the track where the bogie wheels roll would likely cut down on a lot of vibration.

I didn't have a piece quite long enough down at the shop so this one is only about 26.25 inches long, Works as a sample, but nothing more.

The tread pattern can change however, I just drew some points and programmed a best polynomial fit. Then set the spacing and offset from center to give it some character.

Anyway bolt on nylon grousers are actually pretty common so I just thought I'd try and design something for when I do finally find just the right machine.



Cheers
Dan

 

[Track Addict]

Mine is same as others pictured. 1968 442 small block chevy purring. Attached some video of it working in this year's snow.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q93EIlGnbCA"]IMG 06021 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxDS-o1rLw8"]IMG 06011 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTUJurkix4c"]IMG 06001 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[aksnocat]

Boston-

Interesting to see this thread come to life after 7 years.

Some thoughts on your nylon-grouser outside the "Tundra" grouser and belt:

My concern would be that the driven element of the track - the 1X2 steel bar - would be separated/isolated from the nylon grouser - the driver - by a softer element - the belt. When you build up tracks you don't tighten the nuts on the bolts until they're so tight that they make the belt deform under the backing plate. You tighten just until they're snug or just a bit past that. It seems to me that this would mean the system you've described would not be as rigid as it might be because of the flexible/compressible element of the belt between the driven and drive elements.

I've attached four photos I took this afternoon of the Tucker near me with the "tundra" tracks. In this configuration there really is no driver as the bolt heads and backing plates don't stand much above the surface of the belt. Because of the extra height and the associated racking that aquiring traction would put on them, replacing the backing plates with your nylon grouser would stress the bolts if not the belts.

It sounds to me like you'd be better off with solid steel bars attached to your nylon grousers with the belts to the inside like the traditional grouser/belted Tucker track. The rubber-covered steel grouser, Hans-Hall style tracks - the Tucker RBT style - seem like they might meet the no-steel-touches-the-ground standard the park service has.

Though initial cost might be a big disadvantage, going with systems developed by the manufacturer that have had the benefit of time in R&D and because of that R&D, have had the weaknesses built out of them can save you a lot of grief you might encounter with less-developed solutions.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

aksnowcat I see you posting a lot you must have an easy season this year. absolutely no snow catting going on right no we only have about 5 inches of snow yet .can you pm me your phone number some time I need to enter it into my speed dial

 

[Boston]

Yah I decided not to pursue that contract with the parks dep. Way to much risk in a ten year contract with zero provisions for early termination that don't involve ending up completely hosed. They even specifically wrote in that bankruptcy does not release you from your contractual obligations. Insane stuff I'd never sign off on. They basically made every effort to cut out the little guy. Small fish would never survive that contract.

But I am still looking for a Tucker to play with, and I've a ton of scrap nylon down at the shop to tinker with, so when I do find the right machine, I'll try some of your ideas out on it. Who knows, there's a couple guys doing snow cat ski tours up in the hills above Denver. Maybe when things get slow in my other biz, who knows.

Cheers

 

[Track Addict]

Was replacing some links last night and I came across some links that are about 1/4 inch shorter than the ones in the track. They fit but do not extend out far enough to put the inside link and cotter pins.

Curious as to what this would have fit?

 

[Ian Eakins]

I have a 1961 Tucker - it is a 743A model - 12 passenger with a 392 Industrial Hemi in it. I have had it for 27 years and it is a working cat, but is causing me some problems. Everything works great, but the metal tracks are a pain. Is there any way to change over to a grouser style track system? I think not, but thought to ask.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

there is money will buy you anything we have 2 just like yours here but they haven't ran in years