Trailering a Snowcat -Part 2- BRAKE SYSTEMS

[Melensdad]

In the other trailer thread there was a lot of discussion about the bed type (tilt, flat, open steel, wood, etc) but mtncrawler mentioned brakes and it seems to be a good topic to discuss.

Do you have "electric" or "surge" brakes on your snowcat trailer? And why?

What brand Brake Controller do you use? And why?


My trailers have always had electric brakes on the trailer, I've heard terrible things about surge brakes, but honstly have never used them.

On my Touareg I use a Jordan Ultima brake controller, it is a the best controller I know of and I like it a lot. It is a progressive system so the harder I push on my brake pedal, the more brake pressure exerted on the trailer brakes.

On my Mountaineer I have a Teknosha controller, it is one of their lower priced units, not sure which model. I don't like it and constantly have to adjust it so I don't lock the brakes up and smoke the trailer tires, especially when pulling an empty trailer.

On my Chevy Pick Up I have the optional tow package with internal brake controller. It works well.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

I have used surge brakes but was told not to use them in the snow along time ago. I have not really seen many surge brake setups as of late. I prefer and believe electric brakes are superior anyway. YOU can adjust the amount of braking force the trailer has inside your cab. You can also apply the trailer brakes independently of your brake system. This I have found to be very nice on ICED roads when you want the trailer to stay put as much as possible as you try to turn around. Another key and I find the most critical part is the type of tires you put on your snowcat trailer. NOW us 2000# to 4000# weight cat owners have alot more choices. I now run a dedicated snow tire that are studded. I had a very bad experience when I was using standard trailer tires and was on a very Icey road. Those tires had ZERO traction and was quite scary. When I put my studded snow tires on man what a diffrence those made! (ask DMIESNER) My braking was also much more improved. One thing I do see with people new to towing is the fact that they still wait to long to start slowing down and or brake.

 

[paulhenry]

Electric brakes in my book are must. I tow a heavier snowcat and a GVW of about 11,000 lbs. Surge brakes, in my opinion will get you in more trouble than you want. There are two types of electric controllers that I know of and I really only have experience with the digital type - the other type being the pendulum type. As I understand it in my pea brain, the digital uses a timer that applied the brakes in some type of delayed ramp up to the max setting that you set on the unit via a dial or slide. There is also a manual lever to apply brakes to the trailer without applying the vehicle brake. The pendulum type applies the brakes by "reading" the swing of the pendulum - the more is swings the the more agressive the breaking - I have no experience with this unit. The pendulum must be mounted "flat" where the digital unit cares not where or how it is mounted - and I like the controler where I can manipulate it while in a normal driving position.

After awhile you get to know your settings - for me 45 empty and 65 loaded and 75 down steep grades. When you forget to reset and you drive off empty - boy you can really smoke those tires!

I would love to have studed tires.... I run studded on my 4X4 rig all winter here as I have to drive my girls to school every day - this entails a 5 mile 3000 ft climb/decent on an unmaintained county road and we see 10-15' of snow during the winter - I have been able to stop and start on an iced over hill with the studs ( I once stopped and got out of the rig and fell right on my keester! Never even was aware the road way slippery!) - downside nearly $1200 a set and you cannot re-stud - my tires are now finishing 3rd season with 70 percent tread and only 30 percent stud - but on a trailer you would obviously get much better usage.

Tech Stuff on my economically priced controller @ $90.00:

Tap Impulse #37865 FORD Brake Controller

Time-based output electric brake controller w/Digital output display operates at any angle. Plug-In-Simple!® Controller Fits: FORD '94-06 F-150, '94-04 F-250/350, '97-05 Expedition, '02-04 Excursion, '94-98 Full Size Van, Windstar '95-03.
Electronic brake controllers designed specifically for late model vehicles equipped with factory tow preparation packages. Simple under dash plug-in makes installation a snap. With easy to follow instructions and mounting hardware included, the 'IMPULSE' brake controller from TAP supplies braking control power for 2, 4 & 6 brake trailer systems.
FEATURES INCLUDE:
* DIGITAL numerical display indicating power level from the controller (5% to 99%) to the trailer.
* Brake Power Level: set the exact percentage of power output you desire.
* Short-proof protection from electric brake wire shorts & brake light shorts.
* Error codes indicate a short & identify type of short.
* Operates at any angle; including upside down
* Quick disconnect allows unit to be easily removed for storage
* Time-based: sends an increasing amount of power to the trailer brakes the longer the brake pedal is pressed.
* 100% solid state electronics.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

I am told I can re stud anytime. I wonder what the diffrence is? I do know they wont or cant stud on used tires sine the holes get filled in with debris. Also even if you have a non studded "holes" on your tire you can still have them studded. Guess they drill out and stud. I will be doing that on my BFG Mud T/As this comming winter if I havent bought a new truck.

 

[paulhenry]

I am told I can re stud anytime. I wonder what the diffrence is? I do know they wont or cant stud on used tires sine the holes get filled in with debris. Also even if you have a non studded "holes" on your tire you can still have them studded. Guess they drill out and stud. I will be doing that on my BFG Mud T/As this comming winter if I havent bought a new truck.

Well I believe everthing I am told and this is story I got:

"We won't restudd those $1200 tires we sold you because the holes get small debris in them and when they insert the new stud via airgun it can and will blow right thru the tire wall"

Well, that's how I remember it.....

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Time to find a new tire store. I went to walmart to have them put tires on my Thiokol trailer when I bought it with the Kristi on it in Grand Junction CO. The tire that were on the trailer were Bias ply and completely worn out. Yah I'm going to drive back home on those. Anyway The guy at walmart tells me no we wont put new tires on because that machine is on trailer and it must weight 6,000 lbs. I told him no its 2,025 lbs and they just need to use a floor jack and stand and do one side at a time. NO. OK so I go across the street to Big-O and he asks me which tires I want. I pick them out and they use a Floor jack no stand. Both tires get changed and down the road I go. Get another tire store.

 

[paulhenry]

The guy at walmart tells me no we wont put new tires on because that machine is on trailer and it must weight 6,000 lbs. I told him no its 2,025 lbs and they just need to use a floor jack and stand and do one side at a time. NO. OK so I go across the street to Big-O and he asks me which tires I want. I pick them out and they use a Floor jack no stand. Both tires get changed and down the road I go. Get another tire store.

My tire store is a BIG O - maybe I should go to Walmart!

 

[Snowcat Operations]

My normal tire guy is a local shop. I was just 8 hrs from home that day.

 

[ewolf1951]

In regards to the braking system for your trailer it is ABSOLUTELY essential that you become very familiar with its operation and adjustments,especially when you are traveling on icy roads etc. I have about 2 MILLION miles behind me in some of the most horrible road conditions that you can imagine and I can not count the times I've seen people get into serious trouble with their trailers because they were either unfamiliar with pulling a trailer or were just plain incompetent.Remember ,not only is your equipment at risk the lives of those around you are as well. Happy Trailering ED

 

[Melensdad]

There are two types of electric controllers that I know of and I really only have experience with the digital type - the other type being the pendulum type. As I understand it in my pea brain, the digital uses a timer that applied the brakes in some type of delayed ramp up to the max setting that you set on the unit via a dial or slide. There is also a manual lever to apply brakes to the trailer without applying the vehicle brake. The pendulum type applies the brakes by "reading" the swing of the pendulum - the more is swings the the more agressive the breaking - I have no experience with this unit. The pendulum must be mounted "flat" where the digital unit cares not where or how it is mounted - and I like the controler where I can manipulate it while in a normal driving position.

And then there is the Jordan system which is a Proportional Pressure system that applies pressure in conjunction with the amount of pressure your foot puts on the brake pedal. It does NOT work like the pendulum or time delay system. Jordan's system is simple, and very effective. Of the 3 systems I have, this is the only one I really think works the way a brake controller should work.

Linke to: JORDAN BRAKE CONTROLLER home page

I think the system that Ford uses is probably the best brake controller on the market, at one time it was also offered to the public by the OEM manufacturer but they had production problems. I'm not sure if it is available again or not, but when I was shopping for a controller I found the system Ford uses and the Jordan seemed to have the very best reviews from people who tow extensively. The Ford system is roughly $350 plus installation. I went with the Jordan because I could not get the Ford system.

Teksnosha is an excellent brake controller by repuation, but I don't like the inertial concept for controllers. JMHO, it works well within it's design limitations, I just prefer the Ultima.