Toyota Inks Deal to Mass Produce Solid State EV Batteries With 932-Mile Range

[Doc]

Toyota Inks Deal to Mass Produce Solid State EV Batteries With 932-Mile Range

Using material developed by Idemitsu Kosan will allow Toyota to commercialize these energy-dense batteries by 2028.

www.pcmag.com

Toyota Inks Deal to Mass Produce Solid State EV Batteries With 932-Mile Range
Using material developed by Idemitsu Kosan will allow Toyota to commercialize these energy-dense batteries by 2028.

By Emily Dreibelbis October 13, 2023

Toyota has struck a deal with fellow Japanese company Idemitsu Kosan to mass produce ultra-high-range EVs with solid-state batteries.

It's the first major update on the company's plans to be the first to offer these next-gen batteries. Toyota says the new technology will eventually enable EVs to go 932 miles on a single charge and power up in just 10 minutes, due to the higher energy density.

Idemitsu Kosan, Japan's second-largest oil refiner, may seem like an unlikely partner for the EV space. But Toyota says Idemitsu has been working on developing the "elemental technologies" for the batteries since 2001, five years before Toyota began pursuing them in 2006.

Specifically, Idemitsu has been working on developing a new material to go in the batteries, a solid sulfide electrolyte. With the partnership, Toyota aims to combine Idemitsu's material expertise with its own production prowess to make solid-state batteries a reality for consumers.

"This collaboration focuses on sulfide solid electrolytes, which are seen as a promising material to achieve high capacity and output for BEVs [battery electric vehicles]," Toyota says. "Sulfide solid electrolytes are characterized by softness and adhesiveness to other materials, which is suitable for battery mass production."

Toyota laid out a three-phase plan toward a goal of commercializing solid-state batteries by 2027-2028. However, that doesn't mean solid-state EVs will be widely available at that time, as "full-scale mass production" will begin after. It also remains to be seen what markets Toyota would launch them in, and how much they would cost. They are likely to be more expensive, and remain that way for years

In the first phase, Toyota and Idemitsu "will work together on creating better sulfide solid electrolytes with attention to quality, cost, and lead times." This will occur at an Idemitsu-owned pilot facility.

Once the material is up to snuff, the second phase will commence. At that point, Idemitsu will construct a larger pilot facility and "obtain mass production technology." Finally, in phase three, "full-scale mass production" begins.

 

[Melensdad]

• This will resolve range anxiety issues.
• This will resolve long range daily drivers (like myself) who often day trip 250+ miles and end up back home.
• This will satisfy almost all suburban and rural drivers who have a garage and can install a home charger.
• This should make city/urban drivers more comfortable with recharging at a public charging station because 1) they don't have their own charging stations where they can plug in every night and 2) the fast charge time + long range means they will make EV charging stops less frequently than going to a 'gas station'
• But this does not solve the electric grid transmission problem.
• This does not solve the issues with not having enough electricity to charge the vehicles.

Overall, very positive. I know others are working on similar solutions with Solid State battery packs.

Biden also is backing a public/private HYDROGEN hub solution, which might be even better. Building hydrogen infrastructure for hydrogen cell vehicles. That has huge promise. Not sure if it will happen, but it certainly has promise.

Natural Gas infrastructure exists currently in much of the USA, that would be another solution and is greener than gasoline/diesel. Not sure why we are not pushing more of that. There are lots of city buses and even some medium and long haul heavy trucks running Natural Gas.

 

[chowderman]

I didn't check the math - but using current low or high pressure electrolysis, (report stated) it will require 22 nuclear power stations to generate the amount of hydrogen "fuel" needed nationwide.
considering the regulatory issues and the NIMBY issues, I don't see that happening.

translating that amount of generating capacity to solar and/or wind and/or a combination of both - - - - not even thinkable.

 

[Doc]

Yes, if an EV can go 932 miles between charges that will take care of the long range issue. While I have driven over 1k miles in a day I can count how many times on one hand, so that does not happen often and never now days.
But the grid issue is paramount. Are they working to take care of that?
Charging stations are another area that will need help. Businesses will not put them in if they cannot see making money from them. But if there are no charging stations EV cars will not sell as well. Chicken and the egg situation. Will government subsidize installation of charging stations?

 

[Melensdad]

. . .
Charging stations are another area that will need help. Businesses will not put them in if they cannot see making money from them. But if there are no charging stations EV cars will not sell as well. Chicken and the egg situation. Will government subsidize installation of charging stations?

Looks like all the major EV cars are transferring to the Tesla standard, that will simplify life for everyone. Just like all gas stations have 1 standard nozzle and you can pay at the pump with a credit/debit card. So it will be with EV charging very soon. All the cars will be using the same "socket" in addition to having compatible software to use the various brands of chargers, be they Electrify America or Tesla or whoever.

In addition to all the above about compatibility with the Tesla network, which is the biggest/best, there is a group of auto makers banding together (GM, VW, Stellantis, etc) that are investing something like $1Billion to build their own charging network.

Honestly seems like 2026-28 it should all come together with better batteries, software and 'plug' compatibility, and more charging stations. Not sure what other tech is going to be developed to compete with all this, but it certainly looks like it could be more realistic, IF THE PRICES are not crazy, for people to switch to electric.

ONE of the biggest problems with all the EV cars that I see is that all are basically internet vehicles and track everything you do while you drive, they track what websites you connect with, what software you use, etc etc etc so there are HUGE privacy issues. These same issues are now moving into all the modern Hybrid cars too as many are 'highly connected' vehicles as well.

 

[chowderman]

uhmmm. the government is already "subsidizing" charging stations . . . $7.5 billion and counting:

https://www.transportation.gov/rural/ev/toolkit/ev-infrastructure-funding-and-financing/federal-funding-programs

and Musk requested $100 million for ueber super ultra high capacity semi charging stations between CA and TX:

Tesla Begs Biden for Nearly $100 Million to Build Semi-Truck Charging Stations

It looks like Elon Musk is once again ignoring his politics in search of a government handout — this time for Tesla's electric semi-trucks.

futurism.com

not many semi drivers are keen on spending overnight to charge up their truck . . .

and, as pointed out, installing a station with those kinds of capacities is simple.
supplying the electrical power to such high capacity stations, , , , not so simple.
building enough generating capacity to supply low/medium/high capacity stations for major percentages of cars in the USA, not at all so simple.

 

[PGBC]

But 900 miles in real world conditions, and in what vehicles.
Lets try something like a full size pickup truck with 4x4 and in -40 temps and a foot of snow. That is a typical winter drive for me.

 

[PGBC]

uhmmm. the government is already "subsidizing" charging stations . . . $7.5 billion and counting:

https://www.transportation.gov/rural/ev/toolkit/ev-infrastructure-funding-and-financing/federal-funding-programs

and Musk requested $100 million for ueber super ultra high capacity semi charging stations between CA and TX:

Tesla Begs Biden for Nearly $100 Million to Build Semi-Truck Charging Stations

It looks like Elon Musk is once again ignoring his politics in search of a government handout — this time for Tesla's electric semi-trucks.

futurism.com

not many semi drivers are keen on spending overnight to charge up their truck . . .

and, as pointed out, installing a station with those kinds of capacities is simple.
supplying the electrical power to such high capacity stations, , , , not so simple.
building enough generating capacity to supply low/medium/high capacity stations for major percentages of cars in the USA, not at all so simple.

I would be really shocked if so much as 1 customer in PG where I live, buys 1 electric semi truck, in the next decade.
This morning the power is out AGAIN at my house, and my diesel engine generator is purring away.
Makes me wonder how much diesel fuel I would burn charging up all of our cars, SUVs, and pickups, if they were electric, so plugged in to charge. Then just maintaining that charge once full, since an ev uses a lot of energy while parked, and that's not even if parked outside at -45, then they reallyuse a LOT.
My gas and diesel vehicles use absolutely no fuel when parked.
It actually seems outrageous to me that an ev is using a significant amount of electricity to sit.
I have 4 vehicles, and they sit a vast majority of the time.
Which means if the were all electric, would waste a ridiculous amount of power to be parked.

Hopefully someday the builders can figure out how to stop that waste.
It should be able to get charged to 100%, unplugged, sit there for 6 months, and when someone wants to use it still have a full charge, or very close to full.
But as it is now the battery would be dead and destroyed.
My summer only car sits 6 months a year, no concern at all, because it runs on gas.

 

[Melensdad]

But 900 miles in real world conditions, and in what vehicles.
Lets try something like a full size pickup truck with 4x4 and in -40 temps and a foot of snow. That is a typical winter drive for me.

900 miles of theoretical range in a typical passenger vehicle. So drop it for a larger size vehicle, downgrade it a bit more for 4x4. Downgrade it a bit more in the winter. Downgrade it a bit more for snow. Logically a 900 mile mid-size SUV batter might yield a theoretical 725 mile range in a full size pick up, 4x4 in winter. That is still very practical.

The way the EPA calculates it currently is a mixture of city, suburban and highway driving. The EPA is looking to change the calculations in the future, which will DROP the theoretical range, I presume they are looking to add more highway driving into the calculation? I'm not really sure, but I know EVERY major producer of EVs objects to the proposed change in how the EPA calculates the range.

What we know is that an electric vehicle, if driving primarily on the interstates, drops its potential range by roughly 15%. That varies a bit, between brands, vehicles, etc but it is a reasonably safe number. I've seen as low as 12.5% and and high as 20%. So a vehicle with a 300 mile theoretical range would actually need to be charged at roughly 225-250 miles on an interstate trip. If a solid state battery works the same way with the electric motors, the same math would apply. 900 mile 'EPA' range would yield a recharge stop at 775 miles if you were doing a long highway run. That is very practical. You would have to assume you'd need a bathroom/food stop at that point too, so even with the extended 30 minute time for the charge, the bladder emptying and belly refilling would likely occupy the time before you got back onto the roadway.

PRESUMING Solid State Batteries cost less to produce and weigh less than liquid cell batteries, then that eliminates a lot of other objections.

 

[PGBC]

900 miles of theoretical range in a typical passenger vehicle. So drop it for a larger size vehicle, downgrade it a bit more for 4x4. Downgrade it a bit more in the winter. Downgrade it a bit more for snow. Logically a 900 mile mid-size SUV batter might yield a theoretical 725 mile range in a full size pick up, 4x4 in winter. That is still very practical.

The way the EPA calculates it currently is a mixture of city, suburban and highway driving. The EPA is looking to change the calculations in the future, which will DROP the theoretical range, I presume they are looking to add more highway driving into the calculation? I'm not really sure, but I know EVERY major producer of EVs objects to the proposed change in how the EPA calculates the range.

What we know is that an electric vehicle, if driving primarily on the interstates, drops its potential range by roughly 15%. That varies a bit, between brands, vehicles, etc but it is a reasonably safe number. I've seen as low as 12.5% and and high as 20%. So a vehicle with a 300 mile theoretical range would actually need to be charged at roughly 225-250 miles on an interstate trip. If a solid state battery works the same way with the electric motors, the same math would apply. 900 mile 'EPA' range would yield a recharge stop at 775 miles if you were doing a long highway run. That is very practical. You would have to assume you'd need a bathroom/food stop at that point too, so even with the extended 30 minute time for the charge, the bladder emptying and belly refilling would likely occupy the time before you got back onto the roadway.

PRESUMING Solid State Batteries cost less to produce and weigh less than liquid cell batteries, then that eliminates a lot of other objections.

Sounds good actually.
Much better than my guess would have been.
A 30 minute stop every 600 miles would be great.
I say 600, because it would be risky to me to try going 700 if its max range is 750.
Now they just need to put chargers on all roads, say every 100 miles.
That would make an ev practical to use.
A repair shop every 200 miles would be great as well.
Towing them 200 miles, sounds a lot better than towing it 1500 miles.