Too enthousiastic

[dirk]

I took the engine out and then i was thinking or maybe i was not thinking at all.....let’s clean and paint and fix ALL,
Anyway, this is how my st4 looks now......
Probably i am not driving next winter....

 

[olympicorange]

…………... cool pics , keep em coming.... the key to a project task like yours , and all the ones like yours.... is not to think about the whole project,... but to break it down into smaller ''sub'' tasks... and just go at it , an hour at a time , as opposed to trying to knock out an 8 hour day … which can be overwhelming. make a to do list, to stay on track, and not to overlook the small details.... looking good , ive had the same idea cross my mind … one foot in front of the other, ……

 

[JimVT]

if your transaxle output seals at the small chain sprocket are leaking now is the time to replace them.
also the bolts holding the upright to the transaxle have loosened up on a few. it will show signs of leakage if they were.
why is the steering column removed,are you rebuilding the steering box?

 

[dirk]

Well i was not planning to take all out but i need to change the master cilinder and man there is no place to move between the steeringcolumn startmotor and variator mount.
All bolts and screws are rusted solid together so i need place to cut and saw.
And now all is out i can easy check all seals and so on.
Anyway it is nice and educating to do ?
I need new startmotor, mastercillinder and exhaustsystem.
Then i want to change the clutch, all cables and hoses.
And clean and paint ofcourse.
But to my idea it don’t look too bad, i mean nothing is broken beyond repair and what i need i can still buy.
I found a original new variator belt, what is the opinion, the original or the new Gates ??

 

[dirk]

The steering column is filled with grease, wonder if that is correct.
Should it not be oil i wonder, since there are are a filling and levelcheck plug made on the gearbox?

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Steering box should have a 90 weight oil in it but some do put grease in them with some success. I’d switch it back to oil if it were me since these operate in cold climates mostly.
When you replace your starter, make sure your starter gear and flywheel gear match up. A lot of times you’ll have a 12v starter and gear mated with a 6v flywheel from an older engine. You’ll want to count the number of teeth on your flywheel to know what you have.

 

[Moosemeat]

I’m in the same boat, or following in the same tracks I should say. I just acquired an older ST4 #390. Everything is either bent or the holes wallered out. I took the engine out for overhaul and found 113 101 102 B stamped on the case. Bug engine? Then the transmission bell housing shows the engine must have gotten loose at some point. Really ground into the case. I’ve found a type 127 engine made in Brazil and need to figure out what needs to be done to make it fit. It’s a single port. Now I’m replacing all the bogey parts. Lucky to have several metal shops here in Homer. Any an all advice would be appreciated.

 

[Cidertom]

Advise: "go for it". When I got mine, I thought it was ready to roll. It was ready to roll into a junk yard in reality. While its a challenge, do what you can. Then next season do some more. And so forth. Eventually you will be just doing maintenance. But it will take a while. If you wait until
everything is perfect, you will NEVER get to use your st. There is no difference between single port 1600 cc engines. a bug is a bus is a st is a bandsaw- lumbermill...

really, go for it. just try to have someone (in their own cat) to travel with you, or know where to come get you.

If I were in your shoes. (oh wait, you are in my shoes) clean fuel tank, lines. make certain engine will idle. Will it restart. does the drive chains have proper tension. are the bushings so worn the track digs into the chassis on turns or it throws the track. if not ,get out and enjoy. Next season, list the items that need attention by how critical they are and start fixing them. Then enjoy. repeat as needed. Enjoy. Have I said enjoy? I ran myself into a hole a couple of years doing the "this must be done" before I use it. OK, so I had a few bad experiences at first. Then I helped another cat crew. Then I knew there were folks to help me as well. Develop relationships to other users. Make certain folks know when to look for you. Enjoy

Enjoy

 

[PJL]

Been there too, trying to undo decades of WTF maintenance.

 

[Moosemeat]

I'm using as much restraint as I have in my capacity. Overhauled engine, rebuilt transmission and re-bearing/straighten all the bogie wheels. I have an aversion to walking miles in deep snow/muskeg. I have a Trac Master to "make like new". That should satisfy my other urges. I'm still in a quandary as to the engine. The shroud says 126 but the engine case says 113 101 102 B 8. From what I hear its a 'Bug" engine. I've always heard that ST's used an "Industrial Engine". Is any VW motor acceptable in a snow trac? Kinda driving me... So, can I take any 1600cc engine and overhaul it by adding whatever parts to make it a good Snow Trac engine? I don't mind spending money on the engine overhaul, I just want it to be the best I can find. When I was a kid some of us were Hippies and others were 440 Hemi guys. I was in the middle with a Flat Head Dodge. My Dad didn't like VW's, to dangerous for dumb ass kids. Better to have more American steel around you when the accident comes.

 

[Cidertom]

I'm not the definitive source, but from when I was researching this same question: the 1600sp was the 1600sp. the differences were in the carb/intake manifold and some distributors. The carb stud spacing on the industrial were not the same as the bug/bus. The distributor had an optional rpm limiter which is not wanted on the st. The single port 1600 will drop in. The dual port requires a custom built air horn. I've been told the single port has better torque at lower rpm, which is desirable. But, I have never compared them on a dyno for myself. I had a 126 in mine that two shops said was beyond rebuilding. the case was worn too much. I had a built "bus" engine made and it has worked very well.

 

[JimVT]

I'm using as much restraint as I have in my capacity. Overhauled engine, rebuilt transmission and re-bearing/straighten all the bogie wheels. I have an aversion to walking miles in deep snow/muskeg. I have a Trac Master to "make like new". That should satisfy my other urges. I'm still in a quandary as to the engine. The shroud says 126 but the engine case says 113 101 102 B 8. From what I hear its a 'Bug" engine. I've always heard that ST's used an "Industrial Engine". Is any VW motor acceptable in a snow trac? Kinda driving me... So, can I take any 1600cc engine and overhaul it by adding whatever parts to make it a good Snow Trac engine? I don't mind spending money on the engine overhaul, I just want it to be the best I can find. When I was a kid some of us were Hippies and others were 440 Hemi guys. I was in the middle with a Flat Head Dodge. My Dad didn't like VW's, to dangerous for dumb ass kids. Better to have more American steel around you when the accident comes.

was the original engine in it 1200 cc 40 hp stale air? switching one like that to 1600 cc requires heater duct work and a small amount of bell housing grinding .

 

[Moosemeat]

Like I said, I don't know anything about these engines. Here are some pictures of the engine I pulled out if anybody can give me some info

 

[Moosemeat]

I have another complete transmission that came from the Trac Master. It looks OK. the bearings are rusted but everything else looks good from the outside anyways. I’ll send it off to German Transaxle in Bend Oregon. It has the splined drives. Any comments?

 

[Cidertom]

if the shroud says 126, and it fits, it is a 1600 engine. Make certain when you send the transaxle in you let them know it is for a st or you will get it back with 4 reverse and 1 forward gears.

 

[Moosemeat]

I remember reading that but forgot. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Moosemeat]

Thanks for all the info, this Forum is great! The engine I pulled starts out with 122 on the case. I found an earlier post from Lyndon that says its probably not worth re-building, 36 HP. I now have an Industrial engine with 127 prefix, made in Brazil. Anybody know about the Brazil engines? Lyndon, what is "Stale Air"? Also talked to German Transaxle and they are very familiar with the Snow Tac setup. Thanks for the tip. Im planning on replacing all the bogie carriers with Cold Rolled 1018 steel and 1045 ground shafting. I didn't like how the original was bent and the axle holes wallered out, maybe too soft. Or it could be the result of 50 years of thrashing. I think the original was hot rolled steel. Maybe slip in some Hat bushings as well.

 

[Cidertom]

Brazil engines were the last produced by "VW". The plant there produced aircooled a decade plus beyond the German ones. That is the case I had mine built off of. Just as good as the originals for the most part.
The "fresh air" "stale air" refers to the type of heating air produced. Stale air vented cooling air after it went around the heads into the heat duct. Fresh air vented a part of the cooling air through a heat exchanger that was around the exhaust manifold into the cab. Stale air tended to have more "oil" smoke, odor in it. Fresh air can have more raw exhaust in it if something breaks. Neither is perfect. I have a persistent leak in mine that when cold isn't there, when hot isn't there, but while heating up I can get 75-100 ppm of CO in the cab. Not in the short term dangerous, but It's why I have a CO monitor in the cab. Fresh air also robs the cooling air from the heads. If I'm working the cat hard, I shut down the heat air.

On the bogies, the big thing I've seen on my and other cats. Look at what moves. On three cats I've seen the outer shield peened or tack welded. this causes the inner shaft to be the bearing against the axle instead of the bearings doing the work. And IMHO people tend to forget the bogies need frequent attention. Just like the Tucker steel rollers, they need greased to force the water out. The pressure of snow against the bearings will cause water ingress which greasing forces out.

cidertom

 

[Moosemeat]

I'm heading to Anchorage today on a parts run. I cant find the link to the starter replacement. Can anyone give me the spec's? I want to start the Type 127 engine for the ST4.

 

[JimVT]

i would go with the hi torque vw starter

 

[Moosemeat]

Thanks Jim, ever get to Alaska? Are the long bolts that hold the Transaxle hard to find? Mine are froze up.

 

[Cidertom]

If you are referring to the bolts that go from the housing to the frame, keep working the ones you have. On mine, someone had welded the front nuts I was abe to get a > long < handle pipe wrench on the shank and remove it from the back nut. then redress the front.

 

[Moosemeat]

I'll keep at it. "Someone" has had their hands all over this machine. Except, of course, where it really needed maintenance. My bolts are facing aft with the nuts under the frame. Is this the correct way? Maybe the nut is welded to the square plate inside the U channel? Almost has to be since you cant get a wrench on it. Everything is covered in Mouse Milk. This forum is great. I was about to split the double nuts on the Variator but caught myself after I read Lyndon's guidance. Everything in the Glass Beader, paint, bearings and seals next.

 

[Rudi]

Like I said, I don't know anything about these engines. Here are some pictures of the engine I pulled out if anybody can give me some info

Looks kind of like a Subaru engine, I know they were first made for tractors.

 

[Cidertom]

In mine it is a rod threaded at both ends. The "nut" at the back is a tapped block. It shouldn't be too hard to reconstruct new ones, but I'd try some more before I cut them.

Looking at the manifold number and the shroud, I'm leaning to it's had an engine swap before and mixed parts.

 

[Moosemeat]

Yea, its been Monkeyed with thats for sure. Birdshit welds etc. I have a 127 Industrial motor going back in. Now I'll get to learn all the tricks of Exhaust, Starter, Carburetor, endless fun.

 

[Cidertom]

If you haven't bought a starter yet, the one Jim mentioned is a good one. It allows you to use the oem mounting holes instead of cutting off the ear and using a clamp. Consider a electric fuel pump near the tank for priming. The underhood temp gets to the point the gas in the carb boils out when you shut down. It's a lot less draw on the battery to use a prime pump to refill the carb bowl. I have mine set up with a spring return switch for prime, or the other way for on, incase the mechanical pump fails.

have fun. we're here to help.

 

[Moosemeat]

Just took apart my drive sprocket housing's and removed both shaft's. Looks like the bearings spun, started wabbling and took some materiel off the inside of the housing. Both shaft's are pretty beat up and looks like I need 2 new ones. Outside splines are really worn as well. I don't imagine there's any in captivity? Anyone ever have any made? I can have the Machine and welding shop fix the housings.

 

[Moosemeat]

If you haven't bought a starter yet, the one Jim mentioned is a good one. It allows you to use the oem mounting holes instead of cutting off the ear and using a clamp. Consider a electric fuel pump near the tank for priming. The underhood temp gets to the point the gas in the carb boils out when you shut down. It's a lot less draw on the battery to use a prime pump to refill the carb bowl. I have mine set up with a spring return switch for prime, or the other way for on, incase the mechanical pump fails.

have fun. we're here to help.

I finally got the transmission long bolts off without cutting them. Had to practice some Patience. The rear nut was tightened against the threaded plate. Soon as I broke it loose it came right apart. Mine are the same as yours, nut welded onto the front of the long threaded rod. Ordered the new starter, fun to hear the 127 run. Thanks for the fuel tip.

 

[georgeofdesert]

I ended up with a couple of the aluminum housings as spares on a machine I just bought. Someone in the past made up some excellent steel housings so I doubt I'll ever need these. One looks original and the other has an ear welded back on. You buy the stamps if you're interested.