The problem with the Flat Tire in my Snow Trac

[nikos]

4 days ago.

In the way to the main garage, for some special repairs ( not only to change the oil filter, plugs, oil, but especially for the seals - both of the valves, and to change the exhaust manifold and the clamp with the new one), i didn't used a trailer for this purpose, and i choose a way inside the fields.
The distance is about 5 km. I didn't notice and realize from the beginning that the rear left tire it wasn't in the right pressure, and 1 km before i turn to the garage, the tire was out of the rim and looks like that.
A flat tire is always a problem. The Snow trac after two nights staying in the field, early in the next morning arrived in the garage.
I didn't use the normal way to chance the tire. (With the track jack on the rubber trac).
The first day i had to put out the rim from the hub.
I used a several techniques and after some work with my own tools and gadget, the rim was out.
All the morning in the second day i was trying to change the tire with a new one and the afternoon of the same day, i try to put the tire on the hub.
That was not so easy, actually it is impossible to do this by my self.
(I make a test, if something happen when i am alone, and i have to do by my own help, and it cost me only my pride).
From the first time i didnt want to take out the 4 bolts who connects the sides of the rubber trac and then to use the track jack.
My thoughts were, how to change the tire without to used the normal tools.
I have to say that i felt very comfortable because the main garage it was 1 km.


to be continued ......

 

[nikos]

The morning of the third day, me and the boss we fix the problem. The problem was how to put the rim with the tire (without the air inside) and without to take out the 4 bolts of the rubber trac, ON the hub. At the end I use the air compressor for the right pressure. After that in the next 20 min the Snow trac arrived in the garage. ( I have the solution, tell me your problem).
I Have to say that it was a great opportunity for me to realize, how the things are working, and what i have to do the next time if something happened with my big tires that are not foam fill yet.

Nikos

 

[JimVT]

try that in 6ft of snow at 12degrees f.
it took me a few hrs.
jim

 

[Blackfoot Tucker]

May be a stupid question, but...

Why not have the tires foam filled?

Clearly getting a flat can stop a Snow Trac, and changing to a spare, assuming you have one with you, isn't a five minute job. It's a major pain in the butt. And as Jim says; at 12º (Fahrenheit I presume) in six feet of snow it's even less fun.

 

[nikos]

try that in 6ft of snow at 12degrees f.
it took me a few hrs.
jim

Hey JimWT
As i say before i felt very safety and comfortable. I wasn't worry about anything. The property - the field its very close to the main garage. In the morning i am working as usual and in the afternoon after 15:30 until late in the evening i was able to fix the problem. The weather until today is very good, and i had the opportunity to realize how it works without any help, only by my self, except the last day.
For Sure, the temperature and the cold weather makes the difference, in the ways of thinking to solve this problem.

Nikos

 

[3512b]

Thank you for the pic. I think I would have broken the track, made like a little easier for you
At least it wasn't a D8k on a side hill on a old logging road! Been there done that.
What size tire did you use?

 

[nikos]

Thank you for the pic. I think I would have broken the track, made like a little easier for you
At least it wasn't a D8k on a side hill on a old logging road! Been there done that.
What size tire did you use?

3512b
The size and the type of the new tire is
T125/70R17, and its from the AUDI Quatro Continental spare tire. I think it works better because it's little smaller than the old one.

The previous tire is T115/90R17 and it's BMW Continental spare tire.

Nikos.

 

[nikos]

May be a stupid question, but...

Why not have the tires foam filled?

Clearly getting a flat can stop a Snow Trac, and changing to a spare, assuming you have one with you, isn't a five minute job. It's a major pain in the butt. And as Jim says; at 12º (Fahrenheit I presume) in six feet of snow it's even less fun.

That why this is a problem
a) If you dont have foam filled tires in the big wheels
b) If you dont use the track jack
c)if you dont have spare rim and tire with you
d) and you are alone without any help


How many hours or days need someone to fix this problem?

Nikos

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

my Thiokol has foam filled tires I'm not 100 percent satisfied as the filling companys cant get the pressures up to where they need to be and the tires fall apart from heat

 

[JimVT]

nikos
did the rim do any damage to your edge guides?
jim

 

[nikos]

nikos
did the rim do any damage to your edge guides?
jim

JimVT

As you Know the hub is a michanism that is not so stable.
It has certain movemenets. (Three Kind of MOVEMENTS).
The second day i was trying alone to set the rim with the new tire (without the any air inside) on the edge of the hud.
I had to remove 9 external guides to set the tire in front of the hub.
After that I had serious problems how to set the rim in the 6 edge guides, under the pressure of the rubber trac.
The michanism of the hub it always moved (Circular movements in deferent derection). I used some moves levels, with no sucess. This is something that a person cant do it by him self. An extra help is neccessery.

The next (third) day with a second person, a friend of mine, this problem solved in only 10 minutes. We used three kind of move levels, - also wedges, and the rim fixed on the hub withour any damage. There wasn't any other damage, only on the surface of the hub, i scratch the white color (the second day with the levels and the Acetylene flame ) as you can see from the pictures.

Nikos

 

[JimVT]

the reason I asked is that the last time I drove with a flat the tire edge guides would catch the rim and bend the guides over. your guides look taller and apparently wasn't a problem.
lowering the air in the top track tire would have given some more slack in your track.
would you have changed it again in the same way?

 

[nikos]

lowering the air in the top track tire would have given some more slack in your track.

The pictures N1

 

[nikos]

would you have changed it again in the same way?

The picture N2

The Force N1. The hydraulic Jack, lifts the left side of the ST4 on the air

Force N2 = It's opposite to the Force n1 and puss the track to the ground, because the gravity. The rubber trac in this point is heavy and with this movement we can tension the trac around the rear tire.

Force N3 = Is the orizontial force, to tension the rubber track in a line between the sprocket and the rear tire.

Force N4 = Just to hold the weight of the rubber trac in this point.

Jim
As for the way to change a flat tire, i think i will do it again with a second person with me. But i dont know if this is the right way if you have 2 ft of snow because we must use the Force n1. In this case we need a hard ground (a piece of wood or something else).

Nikos

 

[JimVT]

I did mine about the same. it was hard and I thought at the time it would have been easier to break the track. I never removed the top wheel. I just let the air out.
do you think rolling the track in place on the tire after the tire was on the hub would work?
jim

 

[Cidertom]

I don't have any nice pictures, but the way I did it:
jack up and support the rear of the trac.
Slack the rear wheel,
Slack the Drive sprocket
Use the starter to rotate the track backwards placing the most of the slack on top.
Install a 4inch by 4 inch post in the soil behind the trac and braced to the rear. Use small ratchet straps to pull the track back, and up away from the rear tire. it took about 6 straps to pull it away enough to get clearance.

I was able to then dismount and mount the rear wheel fairly easily.

It still sucked.

CT

 

[nikos]

I did mine about the same. it was hard and I thought at the time it would have been easier to break the track. I never removed the top wheel. I just let the air out.
do you think rolling the track in place on the tire after the tire was on the hub would work?
jim

Jim
The 2nd Day it was very hard for me to fix the problem.
Many times i thought to break the track.

The 3rd Day after we set the rear tire, at the end, i roll the track about 1 meter and then i set the 9 removed guides. (It was difficult to set them, when the pressure of the tire on that circular area is very high).

Nikos

 

[nikos]

I don't have any nice pictures, but the way I did it:
jack up and support the rear of the trac.
Slack the rear wheel,
Slack the Drive sprocket
Use the starter to rotate the track backwards placing the most of the slack on top.
Install a 4inch by 4 inch post in the soil behind the trac and braced to the rear. Use small ratchet straps to pull the track back, and up away from the rear tire. it took about 6 straps to pull it away enough to get clearance.

I was able to then dismount and mount the rear wheel fairly easily.

It still sucked.

CT

Cidertom

Thats why and for theese special causes and reasons this forum is a great vast source of informations.
A problem hasn't only one solution, but there are too many ways - tecnical and methods, which at this time, we trying present them and also to see the different point of views.

It depends on the circumstances (Wether, temperature and of course the tools) or the gudgets that someone has with him in the ST4, but also depends how it uses them.

Nikos

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Great write up on this. I had the same thing happen to me last spring. I also didn't want to break the track and went through these same methods as you to get that back wheel on and off. It was a real chore and took a couple partial days to fix.

In the end I learned to just break the track. Don't hesitate and just do it from the start. Once you learn the process on how to break it and get it back together by yourself and you've done a couple times, it becomes easier. Not easy, but easier.

I was also in my yard when this happened and sooo glad I was able to practice the fix so close to home. What a pain this would be out in the snow!

Thanks for sharing your experience. There is always something to be learned.