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The Danes really have the Muslims going now....

jdwilson44

New member
I have been reading these stories over the last couple of days and it doesn't look like the furor over the cartoons that were published in a Danish newspaper that were caricatures of Mohammed is going to die down any time soon. Other newspapers across Europe are now republishing the cartoons claiming it as a right of free speech but the original editor who published the cartoons in the Danish paper has been fired:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11097877/

I spend some time reading online yesterday and the whole thing seems a little overblown - there have been pictorial representations of Mohammed in a number of other places going back centuries. This all seems like an excuse to stir up some trouble to me......:whistle:
 
That's interesting. In this global village we now live in, these desecrations will be seen. I liked that one fellow's statement about in the West there are different moral ceilings and all moral parameters and measures are not equal. And it does bring to mind Salmon Rushdie.
 
beds said:
That's interesting. In this global village we now live in, these desecrations will be seen. I liked that one fellow's statement about in the West there are different moral ceilings and all moral parameters and measures are not equal. And it does bring to mind Salmon Rushdie.

:confused: What are you trying to say here? Should these publications be banned from exercising free speech? Global village? Desecrations? WTF? Can you translate this into English? :confused: Say what you really mean.
 
want me to dumb it down for ya cityboy? I said that it's interesting. I also tried to say that desecrating Mohammed will be noticed in Denmark today because of the internet and worldwide media and communications and a more global Muslim community. Just as you see an American flag being burned in some foreign country and cringe - so these people cringe when their prophet is caricatured - sorry, I meant "when Mohammed is made fun of by drawing a cartoon picture of him as a bomb".
 
I am underwhelmed at your intellectual ability to cloak the simple in esoteric terms in order to make yourself sound far more intellegent than you actually are.



Thanks for the clarification! :thumb: :moon:
 
There is another story on this page:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com

and on this one:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21127

That show some of the actual cartoons in question. I also read somewhere ( can't find the link now) that there have been moves by some Arab states to go to the U.N. and get some sort of international law or some such thing that will prohibit saying anything against a religion. What I find interesting (and encouraging) is that newspapers across Europe are picking up the cartoons and republishing them. And any sort of law that would prohibit saying something against a religion would go directly against the first amendment in this country. This whole episode just goes to show how far apart the western world and the Muslim world are. I bet the stink from this won't die down for a while.
 
You know, I'm going to be really politically incorrect, but quite frankly I'm really tired about hearing every day about what all pisses off the Muslims. It sort of pisses me off when a "faith" supposedly of tolerence and love is all about hating and wanting to kill everyone who doesn't believe what they believe. Big freakin' deal that somebody made a cartoon they didn't like. I see political and religious cartoons all the time that I don't care for. I don't go out in the streets with a bunch of other thugs and chant death to everyone and fire my gun in the air like a total moron. You have to wonder how many of those idiots get killed when that bullet they fired into the air comes back down and hits someone! Give me a break!! :soapbox:
 
Dargo said:
You have to wonder how many of those idiots get killed when that bullet they fired into the air comes back down and hits someone! Give me a break!! :soapbox:

Clearly not enough of them! :thumb:
 
The last story I read said there are gunmen roaming the streets in the Palestinian territories threatening to kidnap any Danish, French or Germans they can find. European embassies are closing up and telling their people to get out. Arab countries are closing their embassies in the so called "offending" countries and lodging protests - the whole thing is just crazy if you ask me. Like Dargo said I am getting a little tired of this type of crap coming out of the Arab world. I find it darkly humorous that a group of people who claim to be so peaceful and forgiving are so unforgiving over a simple cartoon. This is all coming from people who think it is ok to kill people on the streets and then hang their burnt bodies from a bridge, beat their women and kill the "infidels"?

I actually find this an encouraging sign - because I predict that this will all get a lot worse before it gets better. But at least we will finally have an answer once and for all for all of the Islamo-apologists who still want to claim that the behavior exhibited by much of the Muslim world is "ok" in a multi-cultural sort of way. It will finally lay to rest any doubts that what is going on here is truly a war between belief systems. The Western secular/Christian system and the Arab Islamic law system.
 
jdwilson44 said:
The last story I read said there are gunmen roaming the streets in the Palestinian territories threatening to kidnap any Danish, French or Germans they can find. European embassies are closing up and telling their people to get out. Arab countries are closing their embassies in the so called "offending" countries and lodging protests - the whole thing is just crazy if you ask me.

Personally I would find it offensive to me if the Pope was portrayed that way, however I would not expect any government other than the Vatican to step up and officially say it was offensive. Further, I would expect the Vatican would lay blame on the cartoonist, not on the NATION that the cartoonist had his cartoon published in. And still further, I would not expect that the Vatican would condemn the entire population of that nation.

I do feel that the people of the Muslim faith have the right to be offended, but it strikes me as silly and insane that they blame entire nations and populations for the actions of individuals who are not even in the government.
 
B_Skurka said:
... but it strikes me as silly and insane that they blame entire nations and populations for the actions of individuals who are not even in the government.
Sort of like some of the more radical right-wingers on this forum who blame all left-leaners for whatever...
 
jdwilson44 said:
... a group of people who claim to be so peaceful and forgiving ...

The problem is they do not make statements like this. Only the people who blindly defend them in the name of perversity (...oops, I mean diversity!) make claims like this.
 
OkeeDon said:
Sort of like some of the more radical right-wingers on this forum who blame all left-leaners for whatever...

And just like the leftists here who do exactly the same thing and then accuse others of the exact behavior they are engaging in themselves.
 
Av8r_2230 said:
The problem is they do not make statements like this. Only the people who blindly defend them in the name of perversity (...oops, I mean diversity!) make claims like this.

Actually some Muslims do make statements like this, read the following article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11097877/

Muslims as a whole seem to close ranks and protect their own - even if they are terrorists who have just killed people, or mullahs who issue edicts of death against authors who write books they don't like. Then they protest when their religion is portrayed as violent and aggressive. After 9/11 there was no great outcry from the Muslim world about how horrific an act it was - in general there was either no real comment either way or they were defensive about the whole thing.

It is very telling what the Muslim world in general thinks of non-Muslims by the way the Muslim world reacts to these cartoons. I have seen story after story about how newspapers in Muslim countries have cartoons portraying Jews or Christians with similar caricatures to the ones the Danish newspaper ran of Muhammed. There is story after story now about Muslims calling for the death of such and so cartoonist or any German/Frenchman/Dane/Swede/Norwegian their gunmen can capture. I wonder how much whining there would have been from the Muslim world if similar comments came out of the West and armed bands of people started roaming the streets of American cities looking for Arabs to kidnap after 9/11?
 
jdwilson44 said:
I wonder how much whining there would have been from the Muslim world if similar comments came out of the West and armed bands of people started roaming the streets of American cities looking for Arabs to kidnap after 9/11?

Actually, right after 9/11, a drunk redneck in my hometown rammed his old pickup into the mosque here in the middle of the night because the people of that mosque wouldn't go on record as condemning the acts of 9/11. They said that they wanted to hear more information of how poorly the Muslim people in the middle east felt that they were being treated by the U.S.

In the mean while there was a huge outcry from the Arab American organizations crying foul and that this redneck should be locked up for life for his "hatred" towards Muslims. Something just didn't feel right about their reaction here.
 


Muslim outrage huh. OK ... let's do a little historical review. Just some lowlights:

  • Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.
  • A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
  • Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage
  • Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.
  • Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.


http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html



 
I'm just shaking my head...

They take offense to the caricatures yet in their protest, they act just as portrayed in the cartoons.
 
"... Whoever defames our prophet should be executed," said Ismail Hassan, 37, a tailor who marched through the pouring rain along with hundreds of others in the West Bank city of Ramallah.

"Bin Laden our beloved, Denmark must be blown up," protesters in Ramallah chanted.

In mosques throughout Palestinian cities, clerics condemned the cartoons. An imam at the Omari Mosque in Gaza City told 9,000 worshippers that those behind the drawings should have their heads cut off.

"If they want a war of religions, we are ready," Hassan Sharaf, an imam in Nablus, said in his sermon. ..."


There's a couple of quotes from the peaceful average Muslim.

Where the quote came from.
 
There are some here that will say that your reference is from that "righty" Fox News and slanted. They will wiggle out any possible then accuse of personal attacks.
With all the outcry from the Muslims about the depections of Mohammad.
I never heard a word of protest about the many beheadings of journalists, soldiers, outsiders. I suppose there is a higher degree of importance in Islam placed on a comic as to a human life. Maybe thats why the left protects the Muslim beliefs.
 
HarryG said:
There are some here that will say that your reference is from that "righty" Fox News and slanted. They will wiggle out any possible then accuse of personal attacks.

you make mention of this often.... if it bothers you that much why do you read and post?

just curious.
 
Often?? this is a surprize to me. I do argue against the hard left liberal view but still agree with and support some democratic views. I even vote acroos party lines.
I've never to my knowledge acknowledged Fox News as the source to watch for accuracy.
If you refer to bias then there are about 3 or 4 here that are the "kings of bias". That I admitt to. I hope I am on their ignore list.
Does this upset some that some replublicans or conservatives walk a middle line?
Maybe we walk to a different drummer.
 
PBinWA said:

That was the page I was looking for that had all the other Muhammed images. The two you picked out pretty much sum the whole thing up in a nutshell for me. I am sort of disappointed that the US Govt. and papers in the US have not come out more forcefully supporting the right of the papers in Europe to print these cartoons. Last time I remembered there were a bunch of gravesites on the bluffs over Normandy beaches of American soldiers who died for the right to have a free press and freedom of expression. There has been a lot of crying on the Muslims side about the need for Western countries to have laws that more forcefully protect religions - this seems like a very slippery slope to me and if we give into it then we are basically losing this so called war on terrorism because we will start turning into the very thing we claim to be fighting. For the last few years I have felt many times that the Europeans in many cases weren't behind us in this war on terrorism - now I think maybe they get it even more than we do over here. It really is a struggle between two incompatible ideologies - and sometimes you just can't live in peace with people who basically do not respect anything you stand for.
 
One of the most serious problems in many of these nations is that they do not, or cannot, separate religion and government. One of the wisest things our founding fathers did for us was to establish that difference. Yes, most of our founding fathers did believe in some form of God, in prayer, and often in the Bible, but that's an entirely different thing than religion. Religion takes these common beliefs and tries to make them unique. Of course, the next thing they try to establish is that their religion is "better" than others. Finally, they exercise every option that can be conceived to make everyone else believe the same as they do.

If they can gain political power, those options include laws that declare which religion must be followed. Of course, since they believe that theirs is the only "true" religion, it doesn't matter what anyone else believes. Under these beliefs, there is no contradiction between their cartoons showing Jews and other "unbelievers" in a bad way and their protest of any cartoon that affects them. Since theirs is the only "true" religion, theirs is the only one that can be insulted. They are perfectly within their rights, according to their beliefs, to insult us, or kill us, or anything else they want to do with us, unless we conform to their way of thinking. They see no irony in this. Trying to point it our to them will not work.

This is not unique to Islam. But, it is more or less the standard among most Islamic nations. Sadly, Iraq was one of the exceptions before our invasion; as terrible as he was, Saddam ran a secular government in which the Islamic fundamentalists had little power. What is happening in Iraw right now is that the Shiites have gotten power, and they are intruducing the religious element to the government, similar to the way the Shiites have power in Iran.

I think I'd rather have a nasty dictator who kills off a few of his own people every once in a while, but who can be contained withing his own borders pretty easily, than a radial Isamic government that will try to overcome all others, even by force and terrorism, and is therefore a threat to us. Mark my words, even if Iraq succeeds in becoming a "democracy", as long as the radical Islamics run it, it will be a threat to us. From their point of view, the best thing we are doing is training and equipping their armed forces to be much more effective. When we leave, they'll have a first rate army ready to turn loose on their enemies. Between that and the training and recruitment that our actions are providing for Al Queda, the world is going to be a much more dangerous place.

Then, they'll do more than stomp on flags if they don't like a cartoon...
 
OkeeDon said:
One of the most serious problems in many of these nations is that they do not, or cannot, separate religion and government. One of the wisest things our founding fathers did for us was to establish that difference. Yes, most of our founding fathers did believe in some form of God, in prayer, and often in the Bible, but that's an entirely different thing than religion. Religion takes these common beliefs and tries to make them unique. Of course, the next thing they try to establish is that their religion is "better" than others. Finally, they exercise every option that can be conceived to make everyone else believe the same as they do.

Right on OkeeDon - I personally think that once the U.S. finally gets out of Iraq sooner or later there will be allegiance between the now Shiite run country of Iraq and the Shiite dominated country of Iran. Then we will have a real mess on our hands. There is no avoiding this - it is going to happen and we can't stop it. The so called moderates in the Muslim countries have proven totally ineffective at turning around the political problems a lot of these countries face and their problems are being made our problems.
 
Don, I think you did a darn good summary of the situation. There are some secular Islamic nations. Egypt, Turkey and Pakistan all come to mind. They are reasonably stable governments, but I doubt that any of us would really enjoy living in any of those 3 nations.

I make no secret of the fact I am a religious person, but I don't believe I push my religion, in fact I don't believe in a religious government. Nor do I believe in clensing the government of all religious words/symbols/etc. I've got no problem with "In God We Trust," or even the 10 Commandments being displayed. But I don't consider either of those to be Christian issues, after all the 10 Commandments were given to Moses long before the birth of Chirstianity. It strikes me that we have a nice balance here and protection of stability provided by the separation of church and state clauses.

It is a shame that we are not seeing secular Islamic nations rise, and that is going to become a big problem for all of the world if there is no ability for peaceful co-existence.
 
It's already happening. It's documented that Iran sent over the Islamic equivalent of James Carville or Ken Mehlman to help "manage" the elections in Iraq.

The Shiites are the majority in Iraq; but the rough-and-ready dictator tactics of Sunni Saddam Hussein controlled them, even though the more secular Sunnis were the minority. In contrast to other Islamic countries, Iraq had few restrictions on women, girl's schools, few religious rules on society, and little or no contact with terrorists (who are primarily regious; Saddam was not). He did help fund the families of those who blew themselves up, but in the Middle East, that's almost the same as joining the volunteer fire department -- everyone does it. That's not enough to justify our invasion anywhere else; it should not have been enough in Iraq.

We had Saddam contained; we were controlling his air space; we were spying on his every move; if he had done anything to damage US interests, we would have known immediately. He was no threat to us. If we had not antagonized him so much with our marching about and blaring horns, we might have discovered that his WMD cupboard was bare. Yes, he did kill many of his "citizens" (most were Kurds, who are essentially Trukish, not Iraqi), but since we invaded, they're dying at an even faster rate and by the time we're done, we may have caused as many to die as he did.

All of this was known, stated and documented before we ever invaded. I was one of the ones saying it. Most of our traditional allies said it, and refused to help us. But, for whatever reason that's long lost now, the Bushies just had to have their war.

Sad.


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