Thank You DOdd Frank

[FrancSevin]

We've been helping our son andhis wife get into a new home. They have tree kids, one 21 Yrs is an wheelchair and they are both in wheel chairs.

Currently renting two Side by Side apartmets in Norwich CT. About $2,000 a month rent. My son works at the local Community college on the support staff and takes classes there.

Aside from his meager income all three adults have Social security incomes. Stable Government checks. They found a nice basicly single level home nearby(rare in CT) they could almost afford and the buyer, seeing my son was an disabled vet, dropped the price under his preapproved loan amount.

That was last Thanksgiving.
Deal set, closing to be set based on House appraisal.


Just about every other day since then, My son has had to come up with "just one more document" to prove his income, Birth certificates to prove his childrens ages, Social security gaurranttees of his income, City and county projected tax bills, and proof he has the down payment and closing costs in the bank. And just to be fun, those amounts keep being raised.

Now, just two days before the fourth and supposedly final closing date, he has to prove, that the money we gave him was ours to give and, basicaly, that we didn't steal it.

Apparently receipts and transaction record from the local jeweler are not sufficient.

In other words, even though we aren't on the loan and have signed affidavits that there is no obligation, the money was a "gift," (We cashed in gold coins and an old IRA to get it), they want our financial records.

According to the underwriters this all falls under the new Frank/Dodd banking act. Frankly, I have never heard of such a thing.

In light of the President's speech about taking care of the hard working poor folks, this rings a little hollow this morning. I wonder how many people have suffered the same thing? I wonder how the housing market could recover if people must provide such detailed documetation of private family financial relations.

Thanks Barney! You and Franklin Raines,,Chris Dodd and Country Wide,, go have a beer on me.

In hell!

 

[Kane]

Afraid so, Franc. It's all true.

Just wrote a contract on an income vacation rental, and can you believe it? The bank actually wants to verify the traditional three legs of the stool ... employment, income and credit rating. Under Dodd and Frawnk years ago, pick one, and if the applicant is breathing, loan was approved.

And as a matter of fact, I, too, cashed in some PM as down payment. And yes, I had to prove ownership, which can be very difficult in some circumstances, if you know what I mean.

It is as if the banks do not want to loan money. Thanks Chris. Thanks Bwarney.

 

[FrancSevin]

I think what upset me the most on the PM was that they had to have the cash in the bank prior to completing the application. I was forced to sell at a low point in the value fluctuations. If I could have waited two weeks, I would have done better. It cost me $1,200.00

Then, they had the stones to delay closing and ask me to prove ownership. Some was aquired via barter and trades, over time. The gold is gone man. How do I prove I owned it.

WTF

 

[Kane]

I think what upset me the most on the PM was that they had to have the cash inthe bank prior to completing the application. I was forced to sell at a low point in the value fluctuations. If I could have waite two weeks, I would have done better. It cost me $1,200.00

Then, they had the stones to delay closing and ask me to prove ownership. Some was aquired via barter and trades, over time. The gold is gone man. How do I prove I owned it.

WTF

Sux big time. OTOH, just be glad that Obama's 1099 brainchild didn't make it thru the Congress. Ya' know, the one where every transaction over $600 was to be reported by 1099? Wouldn't that take the fun out of it. Pay gains again?

But yes, to be forced to liquidate PM's during the $500/oz December correction really blows. Just to make Dodd/Frwank happy. Shit, gold went up $40/oz today alone! And the worst part, once you sell for crappy FRN's, you no longer have gold. You have crappy FRN'S.

 

[FrancSevin]

Sux big time. OTOH, just be glad that Obama's 1099 brainchild didn't make it thru the Congress. Ya' know, the one where every transaction over $600 was to be reported by 1099? Wouldn't that take the fun out of it. Pay gains again?

But yes, to be forced to liquidate PM's during the $500/oz December correction really blows. Just to make Dodd/Frwank happy. Shit, gold went up $40/oz today alone! And the worst part, once you sell for crappy FRN's, you no longer have gold. You have crappy FRN'S.

I have coins I bought in the seventies. Half those shops didn't keep records or are closed. Proof of ownership was basicaly "possesion."

These are the incremetals that most folks do not understand when you tell them how a new law or regulatory agency encroaches on their God given and Constitutionaly guarrantteed freedoms. Nudge by critical nudge.

Gold,bullets and TP. I'll thank the government to keep their mitts off mine.

 

[tiredretired]

Nothing surprises me any more Franc. That just sucks. It boils down to just more big government. Every other speech from the Annointed One calls for more oversight, more legislation, more, more more. We're all being strangled with miles of red tape every time we try to move.

I wish the best for your son, Franc. I hope there is daylight at the end of this beaurocratic tunnel.

 

[FrancSevin]

Two more weeks have gone by. And still no closing date. We keep being told,"it's getting closer."

My Ass itis.

Yesterday, the underwriter complained that the way we ran several transactions throughour banks bothered them. Keep in mind, we are the parents, not even on the loan, we just gifted the kids a measely $10 grand to put down on the house.

The house meets the appraisal criteria
The kids have the income
They have a decent credit score.
My son is a doisabled VET
The bank has approved the loan.

Fannie May has not. For six weeks now.
Mostly because we gifted the kids a little cash.

I can just imagine what a distresed homeowner will have to go thru to qualify for Bari's new "Refinancing Plan" where the advertisement teases, "all you need is a 580 credit score and have made you last6 months house payments on time,to qualify."

If anyone hears of this new idea happening with any success, pass it on.

In the end it comes down to the underwiters, Fannie and Freddie who, with the help of Community organizers demanding banks make bad sub prime loans, screwed things up in the first place.

The housing market will stay in the dumps so long as working people cannot get mortgages.

Thanks again Barney Fwank

 

[rlk]

Franc, when this mess is finally over, I hope you will document the experiences into a long letter and send it in a letter to the editor, or to some reporters or TV stations. This crap needs to be made public.

Bob

 

[FrancSevin]

Franc, when this mess is finally over, I hope you will document the experiences into a long letter and send it in a letter to the editor, or to some reporters or TV stations. This crap needs to be made public.

Bob

I plan to. I would like to include some comments from here as well. Especialy some from the left wingnuts who usually manage to equivocate some reasoning for such unreasonableness.

Meanwhile, My wife has been stuck in CT for four weeks since the last scheduled "closing date" was scheduled. Keep in mind my son is the only pair of working legs in the household who not only holds a job but must caravan his dependents to their various medical needs. Then, as well he must find time to go to all the governmet offices, banks and agencies to document his financial activities.
There is more to moving than a bankloan. School registrations packing things up, getting atruck, getting insurance, utilities , etc...So Mom has come to help.

And then, they have to put together friends and relatives if and when they move.

Mom and Dad have sent money over the years to help support them and improve life for our grandchildren. So,,,,the banks and the government (Fannie Mae) want to know more about us.
Why?
We are the parents.

Mom is also the CEO of a company with up to 40 employees. I'm filling in but that takes away from what I do, selling. Sales is the fuel of any company's fire, and firewood is scarce these days So a lot is at stake while some little clerk at Fannie turns a screw in my family's back.

All this over a measely gift $10 Grand

Paranoid as it sounds, I sense a dislike, on the part of the Government, for the normal activities of the family unit.

But I digress.
I am hearing from friends, and bankers, that this is the new normal. Everyone trying to get a mortgage will be facing this kind of run around.

What happened to the well intentioned Community Re-investment act policies? Well, they were abused beyond their purpose. Abused beyond reason. Abused beyond belief.

And one of the greatest perpetrators of that abuse, a Community Organizer Extroidanair, who sued and extorted banks so they would grant loans to people who certainly could not pay them back, now sits in the White House promising, with a wide smirky grin, to "Fundimentaly change America."

And WE let him and his like minded friends, do it.

In November 2008 I said "WE don't come back from here." People scoffed saying America was better than that, stonger than that. America would be fine,it would not falter. Decline and loss of the American dream? It wouldn't happen.

Well, It has.

Do the math folks. The President and the Senate have not even tried to pass a budget. FOR OVER THREE YEARS. Yet they spend, without reservation $4 billion more than we have ,,,EVERY DAY.
There are no lies in the numbers.
We don't get back from here.
Even the best pundits cannot spin the gossimer into gold anymore.
We don't get back from here.
Prove me wrong

 

[Kane]

Franc, when this mess is finally over, I hope you will document the experiences into a long letter and send it in a letter to the editor, or to some reporters or TV stations. This crap needs to be made public.

Bob

This is SOP with any loan tied to Fannie/Freddie lately. Three years ago you could get a mortgage without even a pay stub as long as you had a pulse. Now they put you thru the wringer for a scavenger hunt that goes on at least 45 days. Copying paper. Faxing. Emailing. Verifying ever dollar on the financial statement.

The new "terms" set up by Fannie/Freddie to refinance, regardless of the advertised promises, are structured to FAIL. I have a credit score of 815, no debt and twice the income necessary to buy a beach rental. Still just barely squeak by the new mortgage application rules.

You are not alone, Franc. You're not white, are you?

 

[FrancSevin]

You are not alone, Franc. You're not white, are you?

LOL
I qualify as a Natural Born Citizen.
Actually, I am a native American mogrel,(25% Cherokee) and so are my grandchildren. My daughter in law is an active tribal member(Wampanoag) and so are my grandchildren. Are you suggesting we should race bait here to get better treatment?

Kane, I thought you were a conservative

 

[muleman]

The real reason for all the delays is there are no longer all the kickbacks for the greedy mortgage originators,appraisers and bank loan officers that were flowing freely before. A few years ago a phone call from one of these and a few hundreds or thousand changed hands and paperwork flew by so fast it left a scorched trail. When we helped our youngest get their first house the whole deal was done inside of 2 weeks and I used a POA from him while he was still stationed in Alaska. Would not want to do that today.

 

[FrancSevin]

Well, here is where it ended.
The underwriter has asked for a judges decree that our Step grandaughter is a ward of our son and his wife. Otherwis her paultry $231 per month contribution to the household income is not guarrenteed. Just one more thing they came up with.

No judge would ever give such an order because she is not incompetent, she is bedridden and totaly dependent.

In truth the kids didn't need the $231.00 to meet the requirements of the loan anyway but, the underwriter kicked it out. This after close to 90 days of stepping and fetching and the underwiters holding the loan off at arms length saying, "just one more little detail and we are done."

If anyone is poor and needs a willing lender to do the right thing it is my injured Vet son and his stricken family. The real stupidity here is that they are spending over $2,000 a month on rent so they can have four bedrooms together (two adjoining apartments) in an apartment complex. The house payment would have been a little more than half of that.

The Bank had said OK months ago, the underwriters, FannieMay or Freddie have been the problem. So today the seller pulled out. Cannot blame him.

Our company has been, like so many maufacturers, suffering for the last two years. Barely surviving, we are not in a position to purchase the house ourselves (I'm already on the hook for my house and my FIL's house. He is an 89 year old WWII vet barely getting by on his SS. Besides, we are self employed which to most banks means we are unemployed.
So, the kids lose a chance at a great house deal. For nomore reasonthan an underwriter with a burr under her saddle.

So, if anybody sees Barney Fwank or Chris Dood, give them my regards.

 

[jimbo]

Franc, you are finding out why after 30 years appraising, I got enough in my last two years to hate getting up in the morning and gave it up.

 

[FrancSevin]

Franc, you are finding out why after 30 years appraising, I got enough in my last two years to hate getting up in the morning and gave it up.

Perhaps. But what I am really finding out is that this administration is not intending to help the truly needy. Just intent on keeping them dependent.

They could get a nice check from HUD and live in a government subsidized house. Still get their Social Security disability. Plus food stamps.

What the kids wanted to do was going to cost the government far less and leave them independent without a gang of social workers coming by every month to "evaluate" their situation.

 

[Kane]

Well, here is where it ended.
The underwriter has asked for a judges decree that our Step grandaughter is a ward of our son and his wife. Otherwis her paultry $231 per month contribution to the household income is not guarrenteed. Just one more thing they came up with.

No judge would ever give such an order because she is not incompetent, she is bedridden and totaly dependent.

In truth the kids didn't need the $231.00 to meet the requirements of the loan anyway but, the underwriter kicked it out. This after close to 90 days of stepping and fetching and the underwiters holding the loan off at arms length saying, "just one more little detail and we are done."

If anyone is poor and needs a willing lender to do the right thing it is my injured Vet son and his stricken family. The real stupidity here is that they are spending over $2,000 a month on rent so they can have four bedrooms together (two adjoining apartments) in an apartment complex. The house payment would have been a little more than half of that.

The Bank had said OK months ago, the underwriters, FannieMay or Freddie have been the problem. So today the seller pulled out. Cannot blame him.

Our company has been, like so many maufacturers, suffering for the last two years. Barely surviving, we are not in a position to purchase the house ourselves (I'm already on the hook for my house and my FIL's house. He is an 89 year old WWII vet barely getting by on his SS. Besides, we are self employed which to most banks means we are unemployed.
So, the kids lose a chance at a great house deal. For nomore reasonthan an underwriter with a burr under her saddle.

So, if anybody sees Barney Fwank or Chris Dood, give them my regards.

That sux, man. Really sux. Regardless of the promises, the rules set up by Fannie/Freddie are structured to fail. Oddly, tho, the same rules are structured to put millions of bonus dollars in the CEO's pockets. Really sux. Too bad those shiny gold coins are lost for shitty FRN's.

But now that you know what the rules are - and have all of the paperwork and BS in your file - try to find another home for the deserving son to purchase and give it another go. The next time should go smoother, now that you know what you are up against.
Good luck to you and your extended family.

 

[bczoom]

That sux, man. Really sux.

But now that you know what the rules are - and have all of the paperwork and BS in your file - try to find another home for the deserving son to purchase and give it another go. The next time should go smoother, now that you know what you are up against.
Good luck to you and your extended family.

That does suck.

Now that you have all your paperwork, take it to the media and/or your elected representatives and show how messed the system has become.

 

[Doc]

Sorry to hear this Franc.

This story sounds like something 60 minutes would love to get their teeth into. BC is right. Get the media involved and maybe get this thing turned around for the kids. This is the thanks your son gets for serving and now being a disabled vet? Truly appalling.

 

[FrancSevin]

Media won't touch this. Especialy in Connecticutt.

It makes Obama, Barney and Dodd look bad.

Right now the kids are going to try another lender, perhaps go conventional. Squawking to the media now mikefoulthewaters.

Perhaps later.

Thanks for the thoughts guys.

 

[FrancSevin]

The wife flew home last night. Partly because she missed beinghome and partly because we finally have difinitive news.

The original bank and underwriters we fired and a new bank approached. This timewith an attorney on board. Theresults have been miraculous.

Closing is March 9thor sooner, dependingon thenew appraisal of the house.
The privious bankhas promised to cooperate in a suit against the underwriter for discrimination aginst people of minority and/or persons with disabilities.

It seems the kids have a case.

And now, the house of their dreams.

Grandma goes back in a week to oversee the movers and paint the rooms for the grandkids. I get to go in a few weeks to build some wheel chair ramps and a new deck.

 

[Danang Sailor]

GREAT news, Franc! Congrats to all involved. Keep us posted on the move, and if any more problems crop up.

 

[Doc]

Congrats to the kids Franc. Good for them getting an attorney on their side. Probably the best move they could have made. The bank had to fire the underwriter or else they could have been the target of a lawsuit. Sure glad things turned around finally for the kids they were way overdue for a break.

 

[tiredretired]

Excellent news, Franc!!

 

[wanderer]

wow...went from hitting the walls and cussing to jumping for joy for your dear son and family.
have watched a few friends go through similar.
big yahooie on the pending suit against the asswipe.

 

[FrancSevin]

My son just called to tell me they closed on the house and have moved in. He didn't tell me last week because he didn't want us to drop everything and come to CT.

All is well.

Thanks for the support guys.

 

[tiredretired]

That's good news Franc. I'm sure the kids are thrilled.

 

[FrancSevin]

That's good news Franc. I'm sure the kids are thrilled.

Yes it is. It saves me about $1,100 a month as we were paying the rent for our grandaughter's apartment. Just sothe family cold live together in one place.

Now, My son gets to mow the lawn, fix the plumbing and pay realestate taxes.

Welcome to home ownership.

 

[Doc]

Yes it is. It saves me about $1,100 a month as we were paying the rent for our grandaughter's apartment. Just sothe family cold live together in one place.

Now, My son gets to mow the lawn, fix the plumbing and pay realestate taxes.

Welcome to home ownership.

...and he's gonna LOVE IT!!!!! Congrats again Franc.

 

[FrancSevin]

...and he's gonna LOVE IT!!!!! Congrats again Franc.

He does already.

When i spoke to him this afternoon he was sitting on his new back porch with a drink and the sun setting off to the end of his property. He has mountain views and a creek running thru his porperty.

Lucky bugger.

 

[loboloco]

Franc, I am really glad this story had a happy beginning(not an end he has many years ahead). My son is currently trying to buy a house after losing his old one to fire without insurance. I know the aggravation of being able to do very little to assist when idiots get in the way of getting things done.