• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

ST4 297

Albertan

New member
Hi everyone, brand new to the forum and man do i love the internet. I just became the new owner of an ST4 297 Sno-Trac. Now i wouldnt have even known thats what it was if it wasnt for the internet. So basically I dont have a clue about this machine and im not a mechanic either, however i have a strong urge to get this thing up and running and lookin good. It does at the moment run, however it keeps killin the battery on me. It will run itself but when i shut it down the battery's typically dead - (note the batteries good, it does take a charge.). So anyway ive started to tackle what i think it is, which is either the generator or regulator and man, like i said im no mechanic lol i got my hands full. So anyway if anyone has any information about this particular model or any info. at all about these machines that might help a complete noob. please shoot some info my way.:bonk:
 
Welcome to the forum. You'll like it here. Lots of good info. Feel free to ask any question you may have. I'm sure someone will be along to help you out.

Good group of guys here. We all like to rib each other every now and then. Feel free to join right in.
 
first thing you need to do is check for battery voltage at the battery if you have 12to 13 volts good now start it up check voltage at the battery should jump to 14 volts if this happens your charging system works is voltage stays the same or starts to drop charging systems not working go back to the large stud at the generator once again check for battery voltage if 14 volts or higher ck wires between positive studd on the starter and generator if you still have low voltage on the generator studd(about the same as the batt) than you have either a bad generator,regulator ,or regulator wiring also that battery if its good should run your rig and restart it several tmes off of 1 charge if you are recharging and running 10 minuts and it wont restart take your battery to napa or auto zone and get it checked.hope that helps to get you started

Don
 
Hey guys, thanks for the welcome and the advice. So the answer is nope the battery isnt getting the volts that it should. Ive kinda already jumped the gun and started takin the generator off. notice i say started, because ive kinda hit a wall, ive got it partly off and struglin to get it all the way. I know it sounds pretty bad but if anyone knows where theres like a dumby diagram showin how to remove the generator that would be awesome. Also the engine stamp shows that it is a 1961 VW engine, so another question i keep goin back and forth on is - 6V or 12V.
 
first off its a generator meaning it self rectifies through the armiture as oppsed to an alternator that produces ac voltage rectified through diodes
you most likely have a 6 volt starter with a 12 volt generator seems to be a popular conversion and some transitional period vehicles were done that way too.its been a while since i have played around with the smaller 1100 and 1200 cc engines and would have to look at mine to tell you what to do there ar some funny things you have to do with a 12v conversion on the smaller enginesif the generator proves good than i can help you with diagnosing the other stuff like regulators and switch circuts i always like to work backwards from the battery thats where most of your problems are conectoins and such
 
. . . but if anyone knows where theres like a dumby diagram . . .
Do yourself a BIG favor and go to Amazon.com and order this book > > > [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Keep-Volkswagen-Alive-Step-Step/dp/1566913101/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255871203&sr=8-1"]Amazon.com: How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive 19 Ed: A Manual of Step-by-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot (9781566913102): John Muir, Tosh Gregg, Peter Aschwanden: Books[/ame]
51763C0VTGL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg


The Snow Trac uses an industrial version of the VW bug/bus engine and this book will help you, step by step, with what you need to know. This book is worth its weight in gold, and in today's market, that is a lot of money!!!

Oh, and welcome to the forums!
 
Right on thanks alot that book looks like it was made just for me!:biggrin: I'll look into ordering it this morning. I dont suppose anyone would know what year my machine was made? Considering its a '61 engine im assuming the sno trac was made in 62-63.
 
Your Snow Trac was made in 1962.

There were 100 Snow Tracs produced that year, serial numbers for '62 ran from #230 to #329. With yours at #297, it would have been produce later in the production run of that year.

With the help of several other members I put together some information that may help you:
 
Oh man this is great stuff. I feel like a kid at a candy store!

Thanks Alot

Well I started up these Snowcat pages because I knew there were a bunch of people out there like me (I was in the same place you are today) who wanted information and couldn't find any. Doc was good enough to host the Snowcat area for us on his ForumsForums website and the rest is all history.

But I would suggest, spend some time looking around the old threads. There is an AMAZING amount of information in these pages. But if you can't find it, just ask!
 
1ts been some 20 years since i worked for a vw expert but as i remember he removed the fan and intake than snaked the generator and fan out in 2 pieces looking at my 1600 i think you could pull the intake and lower bracket and pull it out as one but on the older motors that bracket is part of the block
 
yup im in Alberta lol. not to sure but i think i gotta put in a few more posts before i can put up a pic, but when i can ill put em up for sure.
 
I've removed the intake and i took the fan off. but it still wont budge when i can throw a pic up ill take one of the mess i got goin with the generator.
 
yup im in Alberta lol. not to sure but i think i gotta put in a few more posts before i can put up a pic, but when i can ill put em up for sure.

I'm pretty sure you should be able to post pictures by now. If not just post a few replies. :biggrin: We want to see your rig!
 
So i just thought i'd throw in the story on this thing quick.
The machine belonged to my dad, he bought it probably 8 years ago. I know that he never used it any more than a couple of times in the first year he got it, c he had plans in using it for his seasonal business once he got it goin full year round, however this never happened. So the machine sat for 5 years, he never did any work to it, than he moved it to another location where it sat for another 3 years. His business went under this year so hes been selling things off and asked me if i wanted to buy this Nodwell (what we thought it was), so I asked how much and he said $800.00 and it's yours. So naturally I'm thinking well this is the coolest thing i've ever seen so hell yah :clap:, might take some work but im sure i can get er goin again. So did a couple a things to it since its been sittin so long and drove it home 3 days later! And now it sits in my garage until i get this charging thing figured out. The plans to get it running this winter so i can use it, than next year convert it to 12 volt and fix it up.
 
So here u can see that i've removed the air intake, and i've unbolted the fan from the back of the generator. But still it wont budge.
 

Attachments

  • sno trac 009.jpg
    sno trac 009.jpg
    63.6 KB · Views: 202
  • sno trac 010.jpg
    sno trac 010.jpg
    41.7 KB · Views: 207
So than i started to take the plate directly behind the generator off (not sure if that's the right thing to do or not). But now the last bolt to get at is (facing the pic), on the bottom left. And there is too much stuff in the way to get at, and its not even a bolt like the other 3, where as this one is rounded off. And the only way to get at it, i believe is to take off the carburetor etc. and im not sure if this is what i have to do. So i've been sittin on it the last couple of days in confusion, contemplating my next step:hammer:.
 

Attachments

  • sno trac 011.jpg
    sno trac 011.jpg
    135.3 KB · Views: 203
  • sno trac 012.jpg
    sno trac 012.jpg
    85.5 KB · Views: 201
you have the smoller 1100 or 1200 motor i will ck with a bud localy who has converted several of these to night when he goes to work and ask what he did there are mods he dib externaly on my parts rig when he installed the 12 v generator i assume you are having a time with trying to get the fan off the shaft so you can get the generato out
 
also when i said removing the intake i ment the intake manifold and carburator i believe that is the only way you will get the necessary clearance to remove the gen.
 
Thanks for the pictures. Do you know it's lineage? What company owned it? I see that color combo periodically. Red body white roof. Did they come like that from the factory?
 
Greetings Alberton: I believe the 2 tone color was a Canadian Phone company color. From the Factory they are generally all red, inside and out. I like the Canadian Glass defrosters. You hardley ever see those in the "Lower 48". The two wholes cut in the seat are probably to carry a set of gas bottles for a Oxy/Acetylene torch. Rather a unique set-up! That's the original Air cleaner. Only very early ST4's had those. They are a VW Bus Air cleaner that has been shortened. They were actually very good air cleaners as they were "Oil-Bath" type. The recomend torque for the fan to generator 36 MM nut is around 300 Ft. Lbs., but I would junk that generator. It's a small diameter 6 volt and they only put out 180 Watts, which will not give you much extra to run lights and other electrical equipment. The engine is definately a 1192 CC. You'll find on the block, right below the generator pedistal a number stamped into the case. It should start with 116, the prefix for a VW Industrial. These were not especially good engines and definately not good candidates for rebuilding. It was designed to produce 35 HP. Change it out to a more current 1600 VW engine, which will generate 53 HP. also go with a newer alternator. there's a 50 Amp one available that will generate 600 watts. Much better. Good luck with it!
 
Thanks alot Lyndon, I'll most definately be junkin the generator. However I'm not 100% certain on all that has to be done to convert it over to a 12 volt alternator. In the long run I'm sure that I would be glad I did it. As far as the engine itself goes it'll have to do for now. Seems to be in very good condition surprisingly, however I'll keep my eyes peeled for a 1600 cc VW engine. Would that be an air cooled system as well? just curious.
 
Yes, a stock VW, Air cooled flat 4, horrizontally opposed, just like whats in the vehicle will bolt right in with limited modifications. The only real headache you'll have is with the heater boxes. Your machine has what's called a "Stale Air" heating system. None of the Stale Air exchangers will fit on the later engines. The 1200 CC, 35, 36 and 40 HP variations all had small manifolds, usuall a 28 PIC carb, and were produced up into 1965, then the 1300 was only produced in 1966, follwed by the 1500 for a couple years and finally a long run of production as the 1600. It's all in the "Idiot Book". Definately a worthwile investment for anybody with anything VW powered.
Other later VW water cooled engines will also 'bolt-in' with limited headaches.
The 1192 CC, that you have is quite tempramental about cooling. All the tin needs to be in place and the spark and fuel/air ratio setting are quite important. Even the later "13","15", or "16 hundreds" as they are reffered to, will overheat and eventually breakdown if you don't pay attention to the operating temperature. The vehicle originally had a dipstick oil temperature sender. IF it's not there, or broken you definately want to replace it or repair it. Once it gets too hot it will boil the gas in the gas line and vapor lock. You'll have to open the hood and let it cool off for a bit to get it to start back up. There are a series of articles in this forum that will give you more details about this. Fuel is going to be your first problem and there are some suggestions about that too. Just about every question you could ask about an ST4--AKA--Snow Trac has been discussed at length in this forum. The answers are all there you'll just have to hunt around a bit. All the details about 6 Volt/12 volt are covered in detail too. Westermaskiner, the original builders, used 6 volt engines, with 6 volt flywheels and 6 volt starters for many years after they changed the rest of the machine to 12 volt. The transition occurs about 1966, the same year VW up-graded their vehicles to 12 volt.
 
Re: Generator Removal:

Pull the 2 side screws that hold the fan housing. They are down near the plug wires. Next remove the Carb (2) 13 MM nuts, and plug the manifold so that nothing will drop down into the engine. Now the strap that holds the generator to the pedistal (13 or 14 MM), next the (4) 10MM bolts that hold the fan to the fan housing. disconnect the wiring, and throttle cable. Your machine does not have the original Carb. Your original carb had a Manual choke. The one on your engine now has an electric or "automatic" choke. You do not have to remove the intake manifold. In fact it's not a good idea as anytime you do remove it the 2 "Crush" washers made of hollow soft copper, have to be replaced. With everything loose , lift the fan housing up untill the fan can be removed from the housing. The Fan housing sits over the oil cooling tower so don't knock it around too much or you'll end up with a leaky oil cooler.To test it you can stick 12 volts on the armature. If it spins around like a motor then you didn't need to take it out, the problem was in the regulator. Alot of the time all they need is brushes and to clean the commutator. VW voltage regulators don't adjust very well, or at all on most models, have to go for a new one. 6 volt generators are smaller diameter than 12 volt and sit on a different pedistal. There is an exception: for one year only, 1965, VW produced small diameter 12 volt generators for VW Buses. Porsche also used them for many years. Because it's considered a "Porsche Part" they are a real rip-off, price wise. Unfortunately many years of VW industrials came with the small diameter 12 volt generator and they tended to end up on Snow Trac's.
 
Top