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Snow-Trac, Trac-Master and Snow-Master Questions

akmountaineer

akmountaineer

New member
So, after being slightly disappointed in the performance of my 1450 in "steep and deep" type ops for backcountry skiing, it has me thinking about the Snow-Master which sounds like it might be more up to the task yet still easy enough to transport. I perused some old threads for info but seemed to come away more questions than answers. Maybe some Aktiv experts can help me out with a few questions:

What's the difference between a Trac-Master and Snow-Master?

In regard to the track system, I tried to comprehend five belts vs. three belts vs. two belts and big wheel vs small wheel (just which wheels are they talking about here?), X grousers vs. normal, etc. Some setups even seemed to be prone to detracking according to certain operators..... All of this has me most confused. What are the differences in performance here and are there certain year ranges that have more desirable track designs and engines VS other years to avoid?

Anyone have experience running up mountains in powder at moderate altitude (6-10K)? Is it a capable machine in these conditions?

Any other info and advice appreciated! :clap:
 
smow masters and trac masters both have a track that is abou 30 inches wide with deep herringbone grousers and the track extends beyond the back of the machine. the newer big wheel models commonly known as snow masters had a 5 belt configuration with a big wheel in the #1 position and at the rear for track adjustment. the older trac masters had a asset of small boggies just like early snow tracs with the wheels riding over the top of open windows in the track. the snow / trac masters are going to be slow especially at altitude, they will climb like a mountain goat but it will be slow. they have plenty of low gears to keep you moving a hot 1600 will work nice for keeping you in high gear but the tracks will suck hp the ground pressure on a snow master is ablut .25 psi not really any thing else compares. hope this helps with your decision. I would love one they look cool but my conditions with all the hard pack would tear one up.
 
In regards to which wheel is the #1 position.
Look at dons avantar, it is the large white wheel near the front. Older machines had two small diameter wheels there. newer one big one.

in regards to de tracking, I purchased a very nice machine from a member here and enjoyed it immensely. I used it in high moisture off camber high traction situations that should have de-tracked it, never was aware that even tried to walk out of its tracks. I also consider myself an operator, and pride myself in understanding what I am trying to accomplish more so than just driving machinery.
I can say with out question that machine was the king of flotation in deep and steep. Granted we don't sustain the climb beyond 4500 feet anywhere in the midwest, i could climb a wall

I did change my final drive to the optional high speed gears, and found that ratio to be absolutely perfect.

Here is a photo of a master. the motor was quite stout and I think who ever built it did a wonderful job. I am glad i had the opportunity to experience a master and found its capabilities beyond my needs here in the midwest.

Mike

PS was your super imp a wide track.. I have a wide track baby imp and find it to be capable just not as nimble or light footed.. ( our snow tends to posses some moisture)
 

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Don and Mike, thanks a bunch for the insightful input, it's very helpful. Would you guys say then that the Trac-Master would be a potentially better performer (or at least theoretically likely to detrack) with the small wheel setup at the front of the track? Mike, I take it your machine that you had no detrack issues with was a big wheel Snow-Master?

Thanks!
Jon
 
redsqwrl said:
PS was your super imp a wide track.. I have a wide track baby imp and find it to be capable just not as nimble or light footed.. ( our snow tends to posses some moisture)
Click to expand...

My 1450 is the wide track full cab version. I figured with the Sierra cement it would be fine, but it just seems to wallow and dig in on moderate slopes even with wet heavy snow conditions.
 
the conditions that will walk a master out of a track would be some real stiff turf or excessive twisting of the track more likely on the bigwheel models with the drivers spread farther apart. the track twist problem exists with all wide track models even my 2100 which is why I have a blade to level out hard packed drifts or sea ice before my tracks travel across it.
 
Yes correct, One big wheel on the front. I ran my tracks on the tight side as I had those high speed gears. if I ran it loose they would contact the body work when trying to impress the ladies.....:w00t2:

if I got the right photo, that snow bank is in excess of 6', I sunk in inches.
 

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mike you have a snowtrac unlike the krusty crowd you don't have to work to impress the ladies it just comes natural
 
The pics that I've seen from under the hood look like there's a chain drive to a front sprocket? Are you able to adjust the gearing by changing the size of the chain-side sprocket, or how would that be accomplished?
 
JimVT said:
st4 are geared higher and gearing has been changed.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jim. I'm still a little confused on the gearing. Does the transmission output to a differential that drives the chains, and is that where the gears are different, or are the gears different in the transmission? Also, where does the variator come into sequence on the power train line?
 
Yes, the motor is connected to a Transmission Axle combination.... Transaxle.

the output of the left and right axle is linked to one another via the variator belt.

it the ratio of the belt is one to one the machine goes straight.

if the ratio changes (like a snowmobile clutching system) one track is allowed to differentiate at a faster speed, thus the machine turns.

Yes the output of the transaxle feeds a large chain with a 3-1 reduction
the output sprockets is where I made my change to make my master have an increased (numerically lower) ratio.

there are videos and nice write ups here on the forum. I should know how to find them, but at the moment I am unable.
I also recall a video on youtube someone made with the hood up showing the turns.
 
utahwilson said:
Before I decided to use my track-master as a weight to hold down our shop floor :whistling: I ran it at Alt 7k-8k with no issues. 5' or 6' feet of snow, no issues. Loaded down with gear and people in deep snow no issues. Youtube video of the Variators in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_EFoj7_7t8
Click to expand...
when are you going to stop treating your pimped out snow master like a krusty you have the sprockets now.
 
Snowtrac Nome said:
when are you going to stop treating your pimped out snow master like a krusty you have the sprockets now.
Click to expand...

unfortunately, fix the Snowcat is on the bottom of my wife's "honeydo it now" list. However, our twins are 5 in May and they have expressed interest in taking a ride in the Snowcat before they graduate from college. It is on the list for this summer. I would like to attend some of the Jamborees next winter. I do need to hit you up later on how I break the link loose (on drive chains) to adjust for the smaller sprocket. I need to search through repair section and see if it has been asked already.
 
you pull in the front axles with the adjuster nuts spin the chain until you can find the master link pull the clip and separate the chain. or take it to petersons with a credit card pay them to use the bad language.
 
utahwilson said:
Before I decided to use my track-master as a weight to hold down our shop floor :whistling: I ran it at Alt 7k-8k with no issues. 5' or 6' feet of snow, no issues. Loaded down with gear and people in deep snow no issues. Youtube video of the Variators in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_EFoj7_7t8
Click to expand...

Utahwilson, it sounds like you were pleased with your deep snow performance at altitude. Were your travels mostly on flat terrain, or are you able to speak to the Snow/Trac Master's mountain climbing performance in powder?

Jon
 
Thanks guys for all the input - it's very helpful. What are in the interior dimensions of the cabin? How do you effectively haul cargo with just a single rear door? I'm used to loading up the back of the full cab on the 1450 and still being able to get in....:biggrin:

Jon
 
a roof rack would the best way to do it I have had a half of a moose strapped to the top of mine.
 
akmountaineer said:
Thanks guys for all the input - it's very helpful. What are in the interior dimensions of the cabin? How do you effectively haul cargo with just a single rear door? I'm used to loading up the back of the full cab on the 1450 and still being able to get in....:biggrin:

Jon
Click to expand...

I load up the rack on top and both fenders. I really like that the gear can easily be stowed on the outside with the fenders on the snow tracs.
I get the passengers used to the idea that I need to get in first.
 
akmountaineer said:
Thanks guys for all the input - it's very helpful. What are in the interior dimensions of the cabin? How do you effectively haul cargo with just a single rear door? I'm used to loading up the back of the full cab on the 1450 and still being able to get in....:biggrin:

Jon
Click to expand...
If there is one somewhat local I would go look. You will be surprised how small the cabin is. I am a bigger guy 5'11" 250# I fold myself into the drivers seat, and am not comfortable at all. Small feet are the rule. Clutch brake and gas are very close together. A full cab super imp is huge compared to a st4.
 
mike I'm the same size you are just about 20 pounds lighter. if you cut the bench out on the drivers side you can relocate the seat you would be amazed how much more comfortable they .one thing I would love to do is raise the top about 8 inches so I look through the center of the windshield. be advised if your engine is equipped with the old stale air heater boxes heat will suck if you have the new fresh air system you will be running with the back door open to let out the heat.
 
Snowtrac Nome said:
mike I'm the same size you are just about 20 pounds lighter. if you cut the bench out on the drivers side you can relocate the seat you would be amazed how much more comfortable they .one thing I would love to do is raise the top about 8 inches so I look through the center of the windshield. be advised if your engine is equipped with the old stale air heater boxes heat will suck if you have the new fresh air system you will be running with the back door open to let out the heat.
Click to expand...
I have thought about that, but the seats on the right side have been removed also. This one has the 4 cyl liquid cooled engine. Heat is not an issue. I am seriously thinking of taking the roof off and using it as a fair weather runner. We have not used it much as I need tires. But hopefully someday they make more. Lol
 
I am 6 ft so I feel your pain
steve at CSI plastic has come up with a riser for the beasties
Hopefully later this summer cause I getting one for mine
 
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