Snow Trac: Ghost in the starter?

[Melensdad]

I have had a minor intermittent issue with not being able to start my Snow Trac. Sometimes it is ultra reliable in starting, other times it will barely turn over when I hit the starter button.

The problem occurred again today. Its 75 degrees (F) outside so I know the engine is not frozen

The trickle charger was disconnected do to a problem with the circuit in my garage, but when I moved the trickle charger to a different circuit the tester lights on the charger said "CHARGED"

It just seems like sometimes the starter doesn't have any power to roll the engine over. That is my problem again today but the starter was rebuilt and works perfectly other days.

WTF is the problem? I think it is electrical???

 

[BigAl]

Bob ,
I would closely look at 3 things since you "KNOW" for sure the starter is OK .

1. Good Ground battery cable .Tie one to the starter case too
2. Positive batterey cable could be corroded up inside the plastic sheating and not working correctly ( Had this happen to me )
3. Battery is the problem .

Good luck . I hate these types of problems .

Tell you what ... I'll fix your ghost starter and you fix my Hydro drive

 

[Melensdad]

1. New cable just replaced this summer.
2. New connectors just replaced this summer, they are still very clean, checked today.
3. 1 new battery, 1 battery that is 2 years old, both are good.

I hate these problems too. But as is typical, I just came back in from the garage . . . while I was out there I switched the Snow Trac on and pushed the starter button. It fired right up. There was a big puff of black smoke when it started, which was unusual. But it started up within 2 or 3 seconds of hitting the starting button!?! Other than the puff of black smoke it ran perfectly, I drove it around a little bit on the grass (the wife caught me driving on the front lawn ) and moved it into a different garage bay so I could put it up on the 4 post lift.

 

[Jim_S]

I had electrical problems on a suburban a few years ago. I put new cables on it and it didn't help. Turns out the ground bonding strap was broken between the chassis and the engine block. Is the Snow Trac cab isolated from the frame and engine block by air rides or rubber engine mounts? You might try bonding things together to make sure you have a good ground everywhere.

Jim

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Bob,
Check your ground. Pull the ground strap from the frame to the engine and check for corrosion. Sand both places where they connect. dab a bit of dielectric grease. re-connect and paint over them. also attach another ground strap to the engine to another part of the body. use same method.

 

[Polar]

Bob, just to share the sno-cat electrical woes are wierd. I too had intermittent starter issues. So last winter I competely rebuilt my kitten's electrical system (new starter, battery, selonoid, plug wires, tune-up) and in the garage it started fine. I took it to the San Juan mtns in SW Colo for a weekend of planned fun. Well it was -20F that first night and though the whole 6v system was brand new it wouldn't even crank once (I had 5W-30 in it too). Turns out the new starter's grease was not low temperature). So I pulled out the hand crank and a couple of spins and off to the races she went...so I'm just wondering do those Snow Tracs have a hand crank method to start by chance? Good luck with your gremlins!

 

[Bulldog1401]

Bob, take nothing for granted when troubleshooting intermittent electrical problems. Over the years I have fixed many problems by replacing components that were “brand new” or “no way it could be that”. Usually it was an off the shelf failure, or the component was defective in some way that made it short lived. I have also cut apart sealed battery cables to find them green inside. Excessive voltage drop will give this problem away. More than a couple tenths of a volt drop between points is usually bad news.
The most potent way to solve an intermittent problem that I have found is while actually experiencing the failure, start temporarily substituting sections of the circuit with test leads and/or jumper cables.
Try having someone hold the key in the crank position and use jumper cables from a good battery positive to the positive on the starter and from the battery negative to the starter case. No start? Bad starter. If it cranks with reckless abandon then bypass each section of the starter circuit until it starts (jump battery positive to battery side of solenoid to eliminate that cable. If there is no improvement, bypass from the solenoid to the starter next, etc.). The technique is called half stepping. This will help you zero in on the bad area. Don’t neglect substituting sections of the ground side of the circuit as well. Bad grounds cause more problems than people know.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[MNoutdoors RIP]

Bob, a bunch of have held a private meeting and have come to the conclusion
that your Sno-Trac has to be a female. (No offence you female members ) some times they are just difficult to get started, and always hard to figure out whats wrong. but when they do cooperate always fun to ride.and as you get older just spending time with them, even if they don't work can be fun.

 

[MNoutdoors RIP]

Bob, Your machine is stored inside?if it is is your shop aircondtioned? and do you take it out of the shop sometimes after it has been in a airconditioned area.
what, we have seen is from a airconditioned area to a hot humid outside area
is rust building up inside the starter. or if stored outside moisture geting to the starter causing rust between the fields and the armature. after cleaning
the rust off on these they work fine again. just a thought

 

[pixie]

I recently had to replace a brand new marine ignition switch. It worked twice and not again.

Can you hear the starter solinoid click when you turn the key ?

 

[Melensdad]

Boggie. . . my machine is stored inside, and the garage is air conditioned, but I only turn the AC on when it is too stinking hot to work in there. And with my foot surgery this year, I've only now just gotten out there so I've not even turned the AC on once this year. Consequently I don't think condensation on the parts and that then rusting is very likely.

Pixie . . . the starter rolls over but not very fast. That is pretty typical of an old VW they didn't need a lot of speed out of the starter to fire up the engines. But then there are times when it won't roll over at all and that seems like it might be a dead battery (both batteries were tested last fall, one is brand new, both are very high quality coil type batteries rated for extreme temps).

 

[MNoutdoors RIP]

Bob, Do you a Multimeter? have you done a voltage drop test when cranking the starter over? If you had a clamp on amp draw meter you could also check for amp draw at crank depending on what you found with these tests
you could determine if the problem lies in the starter. If your amp draw is high
and you still are not getting the rpms then you are going to ground.

 

[Melensdad]

Boggie, no Multimeter, but my neighbor builds race cars . . . I think he is going to be my new best friend!!!

 

[mtmogs]

Boggie, no Multimeter, but my neighbor builds race cars . . . I think he is going to be my new best friend!!!

By all means, get yourself a good clamp-type multimeter Bob. They can save hours of troubleshooting and costs of misdiagnosing the problem. Boggie's tip of checking the current at the starter when starting is bang on. You will then know if the problem is within the starter or not - simple but very diagnostic test.

If the starter is drawing adequate current but not spinning, it may just need a good cleaning an lubing (if specified). I've run into this problem on both of my Bosch starters, one in the Diesel unimog and one on the Mercedes diesel snowblower powerpack. In both cases, the starters passed the current test, and each was fixed by cleaning and re-lubing. The Unimog has a handy port through the firewall to access the starter. Given the frugality of German engineers, one has to wonder why. These VW starters are Bosch, aren't they?

Best of Luck!

 

[GYPSY]

Polar
What year is your Kitten. Mine is a '59 and has the hand crank attachment but there is no clearance for the handle to pass the radiator and body parts.
Where did you get the handle?