• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

skidozer 252 wont turn well

snowfighter

snowfighter

New member
still having steering trouble works fine cold, fades after heating up.I dont have power assist brakes.Is this a common problem or a design flaw . I have seen these units with trail drags set so the drag steers the cat so I am thinking this is a common problem. Usually with a common problem someone comes up with a solution. ANY TIPS WOULD BE GREAT. thanks
 
Does your skidozer have a steering wheel plus the hydraulic control levers or hydraulic controls on the seat???? You can have two steering systems on a bombardier. My br60+ has both a ram steer activated by a steering wheel which articulates the snowcat and drag to go around turns. No drag on, you use the other control levers on the seat and not the steering wheel.
Not sure if this has anything to do with the problem steering, but I checked my differential fluid and was pink from water!!! Bombardier uses dextron atf fluid. When I checked at Minnesota outdooor, Brad said the dextron was tooo thin and causes problems!!! Best to use hydraulic oil. I just put in regular hydraulic fluid and will see if it made any difference today!!! The dextron is 5-10w and I think the hydraulic fluid is 10-20w?? Make sense!!! Good luck!!!! Hope this helps.
 
Another question....Does yours have a pump and an oil cooler? The one I am familiar with (252 diesel) has them. The pump is belt driven, and if I remember it right, off the drive shaft(?) Also like was mentioned above, use the hydrolic controls in the front of the seat. You have the correct oil in the diff...

Regards, Kirk
 
all I have is the two control levers in front of the seat they control two master cylinders that in turn actuate two slave cylinders mounted on the rear end top cover. A very simple design but it dosnt seem to have enough throw. I rebuilt the master cylinders and slave cylinders and replaced the brake linings. I replaced the diff oil with tdh (transmision/differential/hydrolic) it is made for bulldozers with similar brakes.If I cant get this to steer better I guess I will have to pull the differential out and check the planetaries to see if they are binding . With the top cover off everything seems ok.this is the only 252 I have operated so its hard to know what is normal or not . thanks for your input I would love to see pictures of that drag steering system.
 
Does your 252 have a differential oil cooler ? Have you felt the diff. when it won't turn to see if it's hot/warm ?

My Muskeg ( same differential) has seemed to act the same way but it's not consistant . I will be interested to see how this works out.
 
hey hows it going we got some snow this year. to answer your question no it doesnt have an oil cooler but I think it did at one point. it feels warmer than I think it should It seems to heat up in tight trails when grooming. does yours bother on both sides or just one.
 
Usually, when I have a problem, I don't have a choice about which way to turn !

The heat may be causing the problem. Hopefully Boggie will find this thread and help.

I believe that they use the ram-steer for the drags on many brands of groomer, not just Bombardier.

Yup, we got snow. Hope it sticks around awhile longer :biggrin:
 
Here are 2 not so great photos of a ram-steer system. Drag mounts to snowcat and 2 hydraulic cylinders simply articulate or bend the entire unit as one around turns, and you don"t use the regular steering.
I also wonder if the amount of deep powder earlier this season has the diffs heating up from overworking trying to steer in the soft snow. With the hard packed snow we have now, should not heat up so much as steering is so much easier in the packed snow????????????????? Make sense???????
 

Attachments

  • PIC_0047.JPG
    PIC_0047.JPG
    51.7 KB · Views: 443
  • drag.jpg
    drag.jpg
    17.1 KB · Views: 453
Just an afterthought!! This happens when you get old!!!!
If you had a cooler, maybe best to put a good one back on the cat. Should help alot!!!
 
still having steering trouble works fine cold, fades after heating up.I dont have power assist brakes.Is this a common problem or a design flaw . I have seen these units with trail drags set so the drag steers the cat so I am thinking this is a common problem. Usually with a common problem someone comes up with a solution. ANY TIPS WOULD BE GREAT. thanks
Click to expand...

How large of a grooming drag weight wise, width and length are you using. The ram steer set up for the snow cat/drag was developed because this size of snow cat was not designed to pull a large heavy drag. Adding a cooler will help but the effort to steer the cat when pulling a drag without ram steer makes your brake steer system heat up and non functional as you exceed the engineered steering capacity design. The oil cooler will not solve the problem but will help somewhat. Either add the ram steer for the drag, contend with the steering issues you have now or get a larger snow cat that will handle the grooming drag. You will want to recheck your brake bands and see if you have already damaged them to the point they may need to be replaced again. Heat is your enemy either created by the load or possibly a bearing issue in the differential. I would lean toward too much drag for your cat.
 
my drag is 7 feet wide and 14 feet long it only has 4 cutters .I have 42 inch tracks and was thinking small tracks might turn better ,but I JUST put new belts and guides on one track hate to waste all that work. looks like I should look into a steerable drag set up.To bad just finished this drag,copied one a club member had.He pulls his with a suv on tracks.He cant pullthe loads I can but he turns well.On tight trails I set mine to barely cut at all sometimes only the packer on the ground.If this 252 turned half as good as it pulled I would love it.what control do they use on steerable drags?
 
nice pics northeastheavy that drag is about the same size and design as mine I need to find one in maine or nh I can look at close to measure ram length tongue length and angles.how tight will that unit turn mine has about a 12 foot radious. hey pixie do you pull a drag with yours?
 
I don't pull a drag. Lots of clubs use ram-steer with a 2 track machine.
I'm guessing that the wide tracks do make turning more difficult. But I'll bet it's cheaper to build a ram-steer set up than to get different tracks .
 
your probably right it would be cheaper im wondering if the excisting hydrolics will handle it (belt driven).I think thats what I will do Ill have to look around for one to copy. pixie you still got your skidozer? look on the sokokis riders sc. they have some pics of mine it might be on thier facebook page. I need to get some pics of mine up this fall it was in a junkyard about to be scraped. the cab was on a tire pile the tub was upside down the wheels had been cut off the tracks were in a pile of junk . it was junk but I saw potential my friends thought I was nuts (they may be on to something)but only 4 months and couple hundred hours later it works.
 
Have not used the ram-steer as I have no drag. That picture is similar to what was on mine, before I got it. Sure there are more ram-steer users out there.
 
Yes, I still have my Skidozer. It has a belt driven pump and at one time I think it was set up for ram-steer. I can tell by the holes in the back of it.

I'll look for that snowmobile club but I don't do faceplace. You don't have any pics of your project ??? I don't think you're nuts..... been there myself :wink:
 
I have lots of pics but for some reason I cant upload them on this forum I kept getting mesage saying I needed A special key or something. My wife is better with computers than I but still unable to load them
 
The classic ram steer drag for the Ski Dozer was made by Valley engineering....It folds up hydrolicly onto the back of the machine for transport, or for backing out if you are stuck!

It is what we have on our clubs Ski Dozer. Ours has a belt driven pump and oil cooler for the differential too. Belted from the drive shaft aft of the transfere case....Valley also made the 6 way blade....

We use the ram steer when wet and heavy snow conditions exist. Not so much on hard pack. Member Boogie has Valley drags in stock at Minnisota Out doors if you are looking for one...

Best regards, Kirk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top