Should pictures of OBL's demise be published?

[Doc]

I've seen arguments both ways on this. This does not seem to be the standard Dems vs Repubs positioning in that I've seen voices on each side give reasons for sharing the pics and reasons for not sharing.

I agree with the administration on this one. I see nothing to be gained by sharing the pics. Conspiracy theorists will have their fun with or without the pics. The pics would not stop them or prove without a doubt that it was bin Laden who was killed. I see no need to pacify them, or to pacify anyone who feels the need to see these pics.

I do predict that pics will come out which are said to be the 'real' pics, but I will not be quick to believe any of them. From the data that has come out already from this raid I have no doubt that bin Laden was killed and is no longer a 'problem' for the US. The battle is not over for sure, but it was a huge blow to the al qaeda mission.

 

[JackieBlue]

I've seen arguments both ways on this. This does not seem to be the standard Dems vs Repubs positioning in that I've seen voices on each side give reasons for sharing the pics and reasons for not sharing.

I agree with the administration on this one. I see nothing to be gained by sharing the pics. Conspiracy theorists will have their fun with or without the pics. The pics would not stop them or prove without a doubt that it was bin Laden who was killed. I see no need to pacify them, or to pacify anyone who feels the need to see these pics.

I do predict that pics will come out which are said to be the 'real' pics, but I will not be quick to believe any of them. From the data that has come out already from this raid I have no doubt that bin Laden was killed and is no longer a 'problem' for the US. The battle is not over for sure, but it was a huge blow to the al qaeda mission.

I agree Doc. There is really no reason to publish them. In this day and age amazing things can be done to photos so it will not be any real proof anyway.

 

[joec]

I don't see a need either as I have no urge to see them.

 

[pirate_girl]

After it first happened, I felt it would have been good for some Americans to see the photos, but after looking at all the gruesome fakes floating around out there, the real ones............ uhhh.. no.. no thanks.

 

[snow dog]

I've seen arguments both ways on this. This does not seem to be the standard Dems vs Repubs positioning in that I've seen voices on each side give reasons for sharing the pics and reasons for not sharing.

I agree with the administration on this one. I see nothing to be gained by sharing the pics. Conspiracy theorists will have their fun with or without the pics. The pics would not stop them or prove without a doubt that it was bin Laden who was killed. I see no need to pacify them, or to pacify anyone who feels the need to see these pics.

I do predict that pics will come out which are said to be the 'real' pics, but I will not be quick to believe any of them. From the data that has come out already from this raid I have no doubt that bin Laden was killed and is no longer a 'problem' for the US. The battle is not over for sure, but it was a huge blow to the al qaeda mission.

I disagree, we have seen the pictures of a dead Hitler, a dead Hussein, and many other persons killed by war. These photographs will come out it's only a matter of time. So why not release them now and be done with it.
The biggest problem with releasing them now is that the story the Administration told the American People, the photographs may proved to tell a differant story. Then we would have a real mess.

 

[Lia]

We've seen the pictures over here, on the news, I believe I was watching the French news at the time... but I should imagine that it might have also been on CNN, Sky, or other news... Of course the BBC would have censored them, I think.

But, I personally believe that showing them would solve nothing, nor accomplish anything, since the faces and area's surrouinding the heads of the dead were soaked in blood. I'm talking a good metre circumference. One couldn't recognise them, to my mind. I believe bin Laden was shot thro the eye as well as elsewhere.

 

[jimbo]

I see no point in publishing. Like you say, they will not change anyone's mind.
On the other hand, I can't see any harm in publishing.
The smartest move would have been just not to mention that we had any photos.

 

[joec]

Edited by me:
The biggest problem with releasing them now is that the story the Administration told the American People, the photographs may proved to tell a different story. Then we would have a real mess.

I don't see how it was done as important even if they shot him in his sleep. The fact he is dead is enough for me no other proof required. Oh and even his own group say he is dead. Just don't see the point other than feeding the blood lust some people have.

 

[Lia]

I don't see how it was done as important even if they shot him in his sleep. The fact he is dead is enough for me no other proof required. Oh and even his own group say he is dead. Just don't see the point other than feeding the blood lust some people have.

Well, actually, I did doubt the various versions that we were told, at first, but as you say joec, even 'his own' are admitting that he is dead. I can't think why they would lie about it

 

[jimbo]

On the other hand, the suing begins: From Newsmax
Judicial Watch Sues to Get bin Laden Death Pics

Saturday, 07 May 2011 02:33 PM

WASHINGTON -- Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, announced it filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with the Department of Defense seeking all photographs and/or video recordings of Osama bin Laden taken during and/or after the U.S. military operation in Pakistan that resulted in bin Laden's death.

The request to the Defense Department was filed May 3. An identical request was filed with the CIA. Under the Freedom of Information Act, the agencies have 20 business days legally to respond.
"President Obama's decision not to release the bin Laden photos is at odds with his promises to make his administration the most transparent in history," said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. "Judicial Watch hopes its FOIA requests will provide a mechanism to release these records in an orderly fashion in compliance with the FOIA law. President Obama's reluctance to spike the football is not a lawful reason for withholding these historic public documents from the American people. We are prepared to go to court to obtain this information."

 

[joec]

Well, actually, I did doubt the various versions that we were told, at first, but as you say joec, even 'his own' are admitting that he is dead. I can't think why they would lie about it

As I pointed out previously few first hand stories are rarely accurate. It often takes time to get to the truth and get to what really happened. This is usually the case regardless of a simple street robbery to a killing by the military in combat.

 

[Lia]

On the other hand, the suing begins: From Newsmax
Judicial Watch Sues to Get bin Laden Death Pics

Saturday, 07 May 2011 02:33 PM

WASHINGTON -- Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, announced it filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with the Department of Defense seeking all photographs and/or video recordings of Osama bin Laden taken during and/or after the U.S. military operation in Pakistan that resulted in bin Laden's death.

The request to the Defense Department was filed May 3. An identical request was filed with the CIA. Under the Freedom of Information Act, the agencies have 20 business days legally to respond.
"President Obama's decision not to release the bin Laden photos is at odds with his promises to make his administration the most transparent in history," said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. "Judicial Watch hopes its FOIA requests will provide a mechanism to release these records in an orderly fashion in compliance with the FOIA law. President Obama's reluctance to spike the football is not a lawful reason for withholding these historic public documents from the American people. We are prepared to go to court to obtain this information."

But, this is a silly and pointless pursuit by the Judicial Watch. As I said in an earlier post, they have been shown on European news, especially on French TV news... all the JW need to do is to apply for the pictures thro European News Channels.

 

[jimbo]

But, this is a silly and pointless pursuit by the Judicial Watch. As I said in an earlier post, they have been shown on European news, especially on French TV news... all the JW need to do is to apply for the pictures thro European News Channels.

That would be my thoughts.

You have to wonder why these photos are available in Europe and not here.

 

[snow dog]

That would be my thoughts.

You have to wonder why these photos are available in Europe and not here.

thats simple, the American President can't control the press in Europe

 

[mak2]

Maybe they are fake?

It was a very secret operation with very professional operators. Any pictures that are out there Obama let out there. I doubt anyone else in the chain of command would. Really, it was a flawless operation in every respect. That is just the way it is. In fact, it was so flawless releasing the pictures is about all that is left for the Obama haters to discuss. It is a shame we cant all, as Americans, be glad we got the POS.

 

[JackieBlue]

Maybe they are fake?

It was a very secret operation with very professional operators. Any pictures that are out there Obama let out there. I doubt anyone else in the chain of command would. Really, it was a flawless operation in every respect. That is just the way it is. In fact, it was so flawless releasing the pictures is about all that is left for the Obama haters to discuss. It is a shame we cant all, as Americans, be glad we got the POS.

Yup, I agree Mak.

 

[jimbo]

thats simple, the American President can't control the press in Europe

True, Doggie, but if we we were the only military on the ground during the raid, and presumably the photos were in US hands, then there are only 3 possibilities.

The photos floating around Europe are fake.

Someone in possession of the photos deliberately leaked them to the foreign press,

The photos were stolen and leaked.

I can't see the motive for releasing them to the foreign press and not here. Even the Obama administration is so dumb that they did not expect them to return to the US, and they have not returned to the US. At least I have not seem them.

If the foreign photos were stolen, where is the screaming and hollering?

 

[joec]

Yup, I agree Mak.

+2

Now as for the foreign photos think folks, president releases them to the alias and they leak them. Now true or false is up to your beliefs period. Now even they say he is dead with the treats that followed so I guess it this isn't enough then so be it.

 

[SShepherd]

the should release the video of him getting kicked off the fantail and the resulting splash.

 

[Doc]

releasing the pictures is about all that is left for the Obama haters to discuss.

Why would any fair minded individual even say this? Obama haters! Both Obama fans and those who are not fans are discussing this. Most people can disagree with something without hating the concept or the person behind the idea. Even implying this taints the conversation. Thanks for nothing.

 

[mak2]

Why would any fair minded individual even say this? Obama haters! Both Obama fans and those who are not fans are discussing this. Most people can disagree with something without hating the concept or the person behind the idea. Even implying this taints the conversation. Thanks for nothing.

Taints the conversation.

 

[NorthernRedneck]

I don't see any point in releasing them. I did a quick youtube search and there are plenty of videos on showing the compound and inside of the house covered in blood. Really...what's the point.

 

[loboloco]

Don't really need to see them, though I would like to have one for my personal edification.

 

[Lia]

True, Doggie, but if we we were the only military on the ground during the raid, and presumably the photos were in US hands, then there are only 3 possibilities.

The photos floating around Europe are fake.

Someone in possession of the photos deliberately leaked them to the foreign press,

The photos were stolen and leaked.

I can't see the motive for releasing them to the foreign press and not here. Even the Obama administration is so dumb that they did not expect them to return to the US, and they have not returned to the US. At least I have not seem them.

If the foreign photos were stolen, where is the screaming and hollering?

Ok, sorry guys, I should have clarified the point. They weren't still photographs, they were videos of the whole interior of the building, including the bodies strewn around. Its my personal opinion that these shots were not fake. Moreover, various News Channels over here used the video shots, it wasn't just on French TV.

 

[Adillo303]

I will weigh in on the side of the pix should not be published for several reasons.

1) Return to credibility - There was a day that we could simply have said "We did it". and we would be taken at our word. I would welcome a return to those days. If the world or those in it, do not believe, let them check it out for themselves.

2) This one may provoke some controversy. The man is dead. I feel that he got less than he deserved. A public execution at ground zero, would have been highly appropriate. That not being the case, I see no reason to satisfy anyone's desire to see a bunch of blood and gore. Ther are lots of places on the web for that.

3) How the mission was carried out and weather the details of how it was done are no one's business. He has confessed th tot world that he committed first degree murder of 3,000 people. He was punished for his crimes. End of story. Message delivered. Kill innocent people, we WILL find you.

4) Going forward - Of all the possible scenarios, the one chosen leaves the least chance for ongoing problems. There is no body to be glorified, there is no incarceration and ridiculous legal maneuvering of an international trial. There is no further bloodshed in and escape / rescue attempts. There no prisoner to bargain for in a hostage scenario.

This could not go down without repercussions, real or threatened. This scenario minimizes them.

 

[Lia]

I will weigh in on the side of the pix should not be published for several reasons.

Ok, I’m just gonna play ‘devils advocate’ here... Essentially I am with you on many of your points, but...

I entirely agree with your belief that he got less than he deserved, and even that, perhaps, a ‘public execution’ would have been more appropriate, although not at ground zero. I was thinking more along the lines of the usual procedure for death sentences; but you seem to want it both ways Adillo, and that’s not possible.

You say:

1) Return to credibility - There was a day that we could simply have said "We did it". and we would be taken at our word. I would welcome a return to those days. If the world or those in it, does not believe, let them check it out for themselves.

Well, that’s what is actually happening. The only source, for those who do not believe that he is dead (I’m not talking personally, I do believe he’s dead), to be able to research the veracity of it, is the government and the military archives. After all, there was no-one else there. People are clamouring for answers, answers that only government and military officials can give them.

2) This one may provoke some controversy. The mad is dead. I feel that he got less than he deserved. A public execution at ground zero, would have been highly appropriate. That not being the case, I see no reason to satisfy anyone's desire to see a bunch of blood and gore. Ther are lots of places on the web for that.

I agree, but whats with the ‘public execution at ground level’ thing then?

3) How the mission was carried out and weather the details of how it was done are no one's business. He has confessed th tot world that he committed first degree murder of 3,000 people. He was punished for his crimes. End of story. Message delivered. Kill innocent people, we WILL find you.

I have a big issue with your stance here Adillo. I would say that it is very much the business of everyone, especially of those who lost loved ones on 9/11, and to our troops who are fighting and dying to eradicate his followers at the front. These folk, no doubt, will want to not only know that justice was done, but will, in many cases, want to see that it has been accomplished.

4) Going forward - Of all the possible scenarios, the one chosen leaves the least chance for ongoing problems. There is no body to be glorified, there is no incarceration and ridiculous legal maneuvering of an international trial. There is no further bloodshed in and escape / rescue attempts. There no prisoner to bargain for in a hostage scenario.

Agreed. However, as I have repeatedly said elsewhere, one does not need a body in order to glorify someone whom they deem to be a martyr. There will still be hostages taken, and acts of terrorism. The war, and it is a war, will still go on, and we all know that whatever was done with his remains, he will be a beacon to those fanatics and terroists.

This could not go down without repercussions, real or threatened. This scenario minimizes them.

Well, let’s hope that it does indeed minimize them.

 

[Adillo303]

Hi Lia,

So far as my inconsistency about the public execution. I have to admit that I am split. I really am happy the way it was carried out. I did see 9/11 from a rooftop a block from the Empire State Building. I did have to go downtown to get peoples networks back up when a major particulate air solution was human bone fragments. I am unable to take any of my family that visits to ground zero. My heart wants one thing my head another. Sorry to be inconsistency.

I really three that one does not need a body for a shrine. The way it was done minimizes possibilities. They cannot be eliminated.

 

[jpr62902]

Don't publish. Let the potential martyrs believe that he was unceremoniously dispatched in the dead of the night by mystery super soldiers. No pomp, no state funeral, no nuthin. Just faded into obscurity. Not much glory in that. And glory is what martyrs die for.

 

[joec]

Don't publish. Let the potential martyrs believe that he was unceremoniously dispatched in the dead of the night by mystery super soldiers. No pomp, no state funeral, no nuthin. Just faded into obscurity. Not much glory in that. And glory is what martyrs die for.

Now on this we agree a 100%.

 

[Lia]

Hi Lia,

So far as my inconsistency about the public execution. I have to admit that I am split. I really am happy the way it was carried out. I did see 9/11 from a rooftop a block from the Empire State Building. I did have to go downtown to get peoples networks back up when a major particulate air solution was human bone fragments. I am unable to take any of my family that visits to ground zero. My heart wants one thing my head another. Sorry to be inconsistency.

I really three that one does not need a body for a shrine. The way it was done minimizes possibilities. They cannot be eliminated.

Hey, I can certainly understand the inconsistency; I sit on the fence on so many issues that its a wonder I can ever decide upon anything. I think its part of human nature... inherent in most, if not all humankind. It probably shows that one hasa healthy, well balanced state of mind, and is willing to look further than the obvious...

jpr62902: Let the potential martyrs believe that he was unceremoniously dispatched in the dead of the night by mystery super soldiers. No pomp, no state funeral, no nuthin. Just faded into obscurity. Not much glory in that. And glory is what martyrs die for.

er... that's exactly what did happen! lol