Schools

[Spiffy1]

Looks like this has been touched on in a couple other threads, but I don't think discussed much here yet [OK OK I've barely read back a few weeks]...

Anyway 20/20 did a show about a week ago something to the effect of "Stupid in America"

Their solution: let schools run as private institutions. From what I've seen 1st hand recently [long story, not FF worthy] they actually might be on to something.

Actually the only problem I see: places where parents mostly want a great education will get exactly that: places where parents want to give their kids whatever they want including good grades [even when not deserved] will get exactly that [really dumb straight A students].

OK am I nuts [in reference to this thread only please :StickOutT ] or is that risk better than a whole bunch of "pretty dumb" students?

Yeah, I know the politicians debate some form of this every election, but I'm talking "whole hog"

 

[Cityboy]

places where parents want to give their kids whatever they want including good grades [even when not deserved] will get exactly that [really dumb straight A students].

We have that now (really dumb "A" students in many government schools.)

It can only improve if the $$ follows the student.

 

[Junkman]

You might get better response to your poll if you had made it an anonymous poll. Many people don't mind voting, but don't want their vote disclosed. Many don't post their feelings on subjects such as this for the same reason.

 

[Spiffy1]

Checked it, then thought I unchecked for that reason. Please change it if not too late!

Doh! I'm responding to Junkman, you'll do it if you dang well please!

 

[johnday]

Not sure if I'm adding anything or not to this.

We have a local school district here in Monroe County, that got rich overnight, so to speak. The power company built a nuke plant in that school district, and megabucks was funneled into the schools. Sound good? It should have been. But the district decided that a good sports program was more important that a real curriculam. Yeah, they did put some bucks into what should have mattered, but IMO, not enough. Their track team has the best track around, the football team were dressed to a T. They even have class A olympic type swimming pool. Their graduating class? Excellent grades!! But stick stupid. They have a real good understanding of how to flip burgers and line up catsup bottles, but from what I understand, a great number of their "graduates", have had to take remedial classes to have their records accepted at a few of the colleges in the area.
I tend to agree with Geeky on this, throw enough bucks at it, and you'll get what ever you want.

 

[Junkman]

Clothes don't make the man.......... money doesn't make the school. It isn't what you pay a teacher that determines if they are good teachers, it is what their abilities are to teach that make the difference. Today, school systems are too busy trying to be everything to everyone and too self serving to themselves to do the job that they are supposed to. When I went to school, both lower, upper, and college, the teachers were dedicated to educating, not putting in their time hoping to last long enough to get a pension.

 

[Av8r3400]

... not putting in their time hoping to last long enough to get a pension...

I could go on for hours agreeing with this statement! I won't, though.

Personally knowing several elementary and highschool teachers, they are so brainwashed by the government educational system (and the NEA) that they are hardly worth the price of admission. Like politicians, I believe that teachers should have term limits and should be required to have experience in the "real world" before they can be liscensed to teach (only for a set period of time). Many teachers are so "institutionalised" that they have lost all touch with reality outside the educational system.

Yeah, pretty radical. But, that's me.

 

[jdwilson44]

I saw the 20/20 episode and it was pretty good. A number of examples of how many schools are turning out smarter kids with less money and also how more money does not necessarily equal smarter kids. I thought that the woman who was speaking for the teachers union came off pretty bad - not a very good defense of her position.

From as far back as when I was actually school I have always wondered how somebody who has no real experience could possibly be a "teacher". You see a lot of this in the business world now - highly paid recent college graduates who come to your business as "consultants" to try and show you how to run your business. I have seen this happen over and over again - pay the consultants big money, try to implement their suggestions after they leave, find out you just paid for a big pile of crap, go back and ask the employees (the people who live with the decision every day) how to do it - and it finally gets done. A similar thing goes on in the public schools - spend 12 or 16 years of your learning by rote and do multiple choice tests so you can get out and then you finally start really learning how the real world works.

 

[Spiffy1]

Here in SD [coincidentally, among the lowest teachers salaries in the nation], you can get an interesting perspective. They have "open enrollment" which means you can go to any public school [assuming they have room, etc.] you want; district or even town doesn't matter.

Where that gets interesting is the system isn't all that old, but you can already see the effects in places. I know of one larger city [by SD standards] that pretty much does as you'd expect [would, not should] of an average shool; however:
about 20 miles one direction, there's a small town whose school has better academics, slightly less successful [but happier] sports teams, and takes care of displine problems "before they start".
20 miles the other direction, they have lousy academics [far worse than I consider the educational system to be in the first place], aggressive sports - with very sore losers, and behaviour issues I can't begin to list.

For the record I'm not an educator, so like to think I see things impartially. However, my wife is a teacher, and can confirm from an inside perspective the views of all three places I mentioned.

 

[Spiffy1]

Personally knowing several elementary and highschool teachers, they are so brainwashed by the government educational system (and the NEA) that they are hardly worth the price of admission. Like politicians, I believe that teachers should have term limits and should be required to have experience in the "real world" before they can be liscensed to teach (only for a set period of time). Many teachers are so "institutionalised" that they have lost all touch with reality outside the educational system.

Yeah, pretty radical. But, that's me.

I'm not sure about the ratios of good/bad or where the brainwashing came from, but no doubt have seen the same effects in many! Also, some that, as I think Junkman mentioned, are just hanging around for retirement.

That said and all bad apples accounted for, while I can't claim any teachers on the list of smartest people I know, several would make the most dedicated. Yeah, my wife included; 8-5; then 3 hours of correcting papers at home....and still puts up with me!