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Rev. Jerry Falwell passes away
- Thread starter ddrane2115
- Start date
Rev. Falwell was not my brand of religion, nor my brand of politics, but I'd still have to say the man deserved the due respect he received. He was inspirational to many, and no doubt was a positive influence on society.
I personally think some of the religion and politics he mixed could/should have been separated, but then he was not a politician, he was a minister. As a minister, I suppose it was his duty to influence politics as he deemed was appropriate.
I personally think some of the religion and politics he mixed could/should have been separated, but then he was not a politician, he was a minister. As a minister, I suppose it was his duty to influence politics as he deemed was appropriate.
ddrane2115
Charter Member
Bob, you and I think alike on this. Seperation of church and state, a good idea. Politicians should not be ministers, and vice versa..........IMHO.
Junkman
Extra Super Moderator
If religious people believe that it is their job to influence politics, then I say that they should pay taxes on the buildings that they use to do this influence peddling. They shouldn't have it both ways..... either they are in the religion business and tax exempt, or they are politicians, and they should pay taxes like the rest of us.
Well there in lies the question of how do you determine what is preaching and what is politicking?
At the Catholic churches I've attended during my life I have NEVER heard a plea to vote for any party or any candidate. Not on the local, state or federal level. Yet as part of the church teaching, things like abortion and the death penalty are wrong. When the sermon talks of these things and educates the parish members as to why the church deems them wrong is that a moral or a political position? I'd suggest that it is moral/religious.
Now when you get to the independent churches like Falwell's church, he can openly endorse a candidate and has. I suppose that would be crossing the line to some extent. But if he says "The beliefs of our church are x, y & z, and I believe that there is a man who believes in those things, and he is running for political office . . ." then that could be argued as a sermon that is citing a real life example.
It seems to me that politics and the pulpit are divided by a wide, winding shallow, muddy river.
Junkman
Extra Super Moderator
I remember when the issue of casino gambling came up for a vote in MA, and the esteemed Cardinal Law of Boston stood on the side of the isles in the State Legislators Meeting hall, along with a bunch of other Priests, to record the votes of those that were voting in favor of it. The church opposed the gambling bill and that is how they defeated it.
Junkman
Extra Super Moderator
It was done to intimidate the Representatives. An individual can't intimidate a Representative like the Church Priests can.
Junk, any group can do the same. How is this different than a labor union? Oh, wait, the labor union would issue threats of unspeakable violence against you and your family, the church would only condemn your eternal soul to hell.
REDDOGTWO
Unemployed Veg. Peddler
Guess that I am going to change my ways. When the ND legislature was contemplating changing the rules on health insurance so that the employers with no employees could qualify for group plans, I emailed all the members of the committee and my own representatives. The only reply that I received was from one of the committee members, that stated that I should contact my representative.
dzalphakilo
Banned
Actually the catholic church has committed actual unspeakable violence against others in the name of their God (or perhaps their interests) in the past. The only difference now is that they know they (the church) can't get away with it.
And while they have asked for forgiveness and admitted their past mistakes, it is also a darn good reason to have some level of separation of Church and State . . . I believe it was Jesus who stated "render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar's. . ." (Matthew 22:21)Actually the catholic church has committed actual unspeakable violence against others in the name of their God (or perhaps their interests) in the past. The only difference now is that they know they (the church) can't get away with it.
dzalphakilo
Banned
I think there should also be "seperation of man and God".
I always thought the Catholics were pretty tough, however since living down south, the Catholics have nothing over the southern Baptists.
I'm just amazed how much man knows what God wants, particularly when it comes to controlling your life.
Don't know about the Baptists, but when it comes to Catholics, we tend to believe that people are only bound and obligated by their faith. If they choose not to believe, so be it, it is their choice.
Generally, however, most people of faith of any religion, tend to view some things as human rights (divine rights), those rights given to us by God. We tend to get our panties in a bunch when governments pass laws that violate human rights. For example, laws about abortion tend to bring together many faiths (Christian and non-Christian), ditto laws about the death penalty. For example, the Catholic church officially supports the death penalty when there is no reasonable alternative but suggest than in most cases there is a reasonable alternative. . .goes back to the stone tablets Moses got that had those 10 Commandments on it. Consequently here in the US, the Catholic position is to oppose the death penalty because we have a criminal detention system that can lock people away forever. However, in a situation where there is no effective criminal justice/criminal detention system, say a small island or an isolated community in a lawless nation/area (think Darfur?), the Catholic Church would reluctantly support the death penalty as no other option may exist. Complicated stuff, but it does make sense if you read up on it.
dzalphakilo
Banned
Yeah, sort of like the "threats" of excommunication that are made against politicians on how they vote (and more so outside of the U.S, where the church knows it can get away with it IMO).
I will admit I am somewhat biased in my opinion on the Catholic faith because of all the sh*t my father had to endure from his Catholic "faith" for marrying my mother, who was not Catholic. That said, I would guess that a lot of "church politics" comes down to the local level. To be blunt, IMO, you have some good Priests/Ministers/Preachers/men of the cloth, and some who are just plain assholes who need to get of their high horse.
Ah, but you hit a basic spiritual point. Those politicians are advocating something that warrants excommincation. Why is violating church law, and then being tossed out of the church any different than violating civil law and being punished by a civil court.
Just because you "claim" to be a member of a particular faith does not mean you actually follow that faith. If you don't, and if you publicly flaunt your non-belief, especially by thumbing your nose at the core beliefs of the church, why shouldn't the church have the right to toss you out?
As for some members of the clergy being assholes, I'll agree. Some bosses are assholes. So are some politicians. Being an ass does not mean you don't have faith.
Just because you "claim" to be a member of a particular faith does not mean you actually follow that faith. If you don't, and if you publicly flaunt your non-belief, especially by thumbing your nose at the core beliefs of the church, why shouldn't the church have the right to toss you out?
As for some members of the clergy being assholes, I'll agree. Some bosses are assholes. So are some politicians. Being an ass does not mean you don't have faith.
I worked in Lynchburg, Va for 2 years. Great place to raise a family because of Rev. Falwell BUT he was a shyster. He started various business ventures notably an elite housing project and then didn't pay his bills. The contractor lost his ass with the project ending in a bunch of unfinished (expensive) homes.
dzalphakilo
Banned
Why not just make the church law the state law?
I'm sure it was church law that dictated to the church to hide all of those who sexually abused children? Personal opinion, sometimes man hides behind the church.
On a somewhat ironic and funny note, a good friend of mine from Philly comes to stay with me from time to time for his vacation. He's a catholic priest, and he can still smoke me in basketball. The conversations do get interesting around the house
BoneheadNW
Active member
My $.02 on Jerry Falwells passing: no loss. In a way it might even be a good thing as now Falwell will be able to see if his ideas in this life are actually valid in the afterlife. That is really how I feel.
Bonehead
Bonehead
Snowcat Operations
Active member
Tell us how you "really" feel.