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Repower old cement mixer

jwstewar

jwstewar

Active member
I have an old cement mixer. I've probably had it 15 years. It is probably from the 30s or 40s. When I bought it, the guy plugged it in and it ran. I brought it home, plugged it in and the smoke immediately escaped out of it. So I've never actually used it. We got rid of our above ground pool with a fairly new pump. It is either 3/4 or 1 HP. I thought, that should be plenty to run that mixer. I proceeded to pull the pump part off the motor and bought a new pulley and mounted it on the shaft. It fit right on but it won't spin the drum. I can spin the drum quite easily by hand. I even tried to help it start by hand. It will start to turn for a couple seconds and then kick a thermal overload and I have to wait for it to reset. What is wrong? I noticed yesterday the motors at TSC have a starting solenoid. Is that what this motor is missing?

I've attached a picture of the cement mixer with the new motor attached and the old motor that was on it.
 

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Oh, one other thing. Ignore that orange cord in the yard. That was the cord I put on the old motor trying to get it to work. I was actually using a heavy 10 gauge cord that I used to use on that motor when it was on the pool.
 
As you likely know, HP and Torque are two different values. The 1 HP pump motor combo doesn't require the torque requirement of the Cement drum.

I betting the original motor was a 800 RPM motor and the pump motor is 1750 RPM.

The drive on my mixer is a gearmotor on a ring gear. It is1 HP for a 3.5 Cu Foot drum. Yours looks bigger.

Also you are driving a bevel gear set. It will need more torque than a ring gear set up. How small is the drive pully on the motor?

Unless the bevel drive is a reduction ratio you are gonna need a 60 to one pulley combo. With one to one bevel gears,that would give you about 30 RPM on the drum which is workable but still too fast.
 
You are seeing a capacitor start, induction run motor at TSC.
This is what you need to have high torque on start up.

I am thinking this may be the case. Some motors, such as those that run say a fan do not need the capacitor start feature.. Go 1.5 hp... IMHO.

Franc maybe on to something with the RPM of the original motor. Is there a tag with info on that?

Regards, Kirk
 
If there was a tag, any info is long gone. There isn't a spec of paint or anything on that motor.

I was hoping to get something off the shelf and resurrect a piece of old iron that can't be matched by anything made today. Looks like I will have to spend what a complete new "disposable" one would cost. But I will still end up with a better mixer with this one.

Anyone know of something that I could look for used that my have a usable motor?
 
FrancSevin said:
As you likely know, HP and Torque are two different values. The 1 HP pump motor combo doesn't require the torque requirement of the Cement drum.

I betting the original motor was a 800 RPM motor and the pump motor is 1750 RPM.

The drive on my mixer is a gearmotor on a ring gear. It is1 HP for a 3.5 Cu Foot drum. Yours looks bigger.

Also you are driving a bevel gear set. It will need more torque than a ring gear set up. How small is the drive pully on the motor?

Unless the bevel drive is a reduction ratio you are gonna need a 60 to one pulley combo. With one to one bevel gears,that would give you about 30 RPM on the drum which is workable but still too fast.
Click to expand...

I bought the same size as the one that was seized onto the older motor. It is a 2". Wonder if it is worth a shot to try a smaller 1 1/2"? Cheap to try I guess.
 
You might compare the price of an electric motor against a HF 6 1/2HP engine when they regularly go on sale for $99. Then you wouldn't need an extension cord and run it at the speed you desire. If the engine is turning in the wrong direction just get a v-belt long enough to cross over itself to reverse the mixer pulley rotation. When it will be parked for long periods add some "Stabil" to the gas and run it for a few minutes to get the mix in the carb. Whichever way you go I'll suggest removing the power source and storing it in a dry location. Even electric motors don't like outdoor storage for long periods.
Mike
 
mla2ofus said:
You might compare the price of an electric motor against a HF 6 1/2HP engine when they regularly go on sale for $99. Then you wouldn't need an extension cord and run it at the speed you desire. If the engine is turning in the wrong direction just get a v-belt long enough to cross over itself to reverse the mixer pulley rotation. When it will be parked for long periods add some "Stabil" to the gas and run it for a few minutes to get the mix in the carb. Whichever way you go I'll suggest removing the power source and storing it in a dry location. Even electric motors don't like outdoor storage for long periods.
Mike
Click to expand...
I'm a fan of HF predator engine. It's almost an exact clone of a Honda at about a third of the price.
I have them on all my Baja trail bikes.

I have a rather large mixer that I had to replace the engine on.
I replaced it with a Honda 10hp, before I knew about predators.

The thing with cement mixer engines is they have a gear reduction.
I'm afraid that just attaching any old engine to that mixer there might make it spin way too fast when getting into where the torque curve of the engine really begins.
Top RPM of a governed 6.5 is around 3600 rpm.
 
mla2ofus said:
You might compare the price of an electric motor against a HF 6 1/2HP engine when they regularly go on sale for $99. Then you wouldn't need an extension cord and run it at the speed you desire. If the engine is turning in the wrong direction just get a v-belt long enough to cross over itself to reverse the mixer pulley rotation. When it will be parked for long periods add some "Stabil" to the gas and run it for a few minutes to get the mix in the carb. Whichever way you go I'll suggest removing the power source and storing it in a dry location. Even electric motors don't like outdoor storage for long periods.
Mike
Click to expand...

Normally the whole unit sits in the garage. I've been doing some re-arranging and straightening up and I had a couple of projects that I could have used it for. Thus why I drug it out. That was the nice thing about the pool motor. It is a sealed unit and expected to be out all the time.
 
Bannedjoe said:
I'm a fan of HF predator engine. It's almost an exact clone of a Honda at about a third of the price.
I have them on all my Baja trail bikes.

I have a rather large mixer that I had to replace the engine on.
I replaced it with a Honda 10hp, before I knew about predators.

The thing with cement mixer engines is they have a gear reduction.
I'm afraid that just attaching any old engine to that mixer there might make it spin way too fast when getting into where the torque curve of the engine really begins.
Top RPM of a governed 6.5 is around 3600 rpm.
Click to expand...


I too have had really good luck with the Harbor Freight. The one on my roto Tiller is going now for 6 years.


You are right about gear reduction. I not sure it is worth the cost of a gear box at the Predator engine. However, for remote locations without electric power, it would be a good idea.
 
I may be wrong but I don't think a cement mixer requires a lot of starting torque and it should already be running before adding the ingredients, therefore I think the HF engine would start it even at idle and run it loaded at idle.
Mike
 
mla2ofus said:
I may be wrong but I don't think a cement mixer requires a lot of starting torque and it should already be running before adding the ingredients, therefore I think the HF engine would start it even at idle and run it loaded at idle.
Mike
Click to expand...

That is kind of what I thought. I can easily spin this drum by hand and it will keep spinning for a few seconds. That is why I figured this motor would work. It is interesting that you guys mention a gas motor, I had actually considered that at one point and kind of abandoned the idea.
 
Anyone ever use the Smith + Jones electric motors from Harbor Freight? They have a 1 HP for $164 - 1800 RPM, a 2 HP 1800 RPM with 2 start capacitors for $164, and a 3 HP 3600 RPM for $174.

I'm leaning toward the 2 HP.
 
Thanks, with a 2" pulley on a 1750 RPM elec motor your large pulley RPM will be 224. Now count the teeth on the ring gear and divide that by the number of teeth on the pinion. Divide the 224 by that number to get the RPM of the drum. If you think that's too fast then you'll have to find a lower RPM motor. I think I'm right to say the elec motor will need to turn clockwise.
Mike
 
based on Mla2ofus's numbers I get 28.45 RPM on the drum. That's a spin about every two seconds. Pretty fast but acceptable.

I might suggest an in line shaft gear motor. A five to one operation would put the rotation at 5.7 RPM on the drum. @ 3/4 HP it would have the same torque as a 2 HP, and work just fine. Lower ratios would allow a bigger drive pully. A plus.
It would not need a capacitor start.


Using a 2HP motor on 110 volts is not a good idea. Not many around. 220 Volt is better , and cheaper, but that means special wiring for the power cord to the unit.

Unfortunately, 3/4 HP gearmotors start around $800.00.
 
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Keep in mind a 110V /208V will not have the same torque in 110V as it will in 208V. HP is a measure of work, Torque is what does the work.
 
Not yet. I did pick up another pulley the other day. The one I put on was actually a 3". I picked up a 1 3/4". I figure it is worth a shot, even if still end up need a new motor, I will need the smaller pulley to slow the drum down.
 
*&(^*&^*&%&^^^*&)(*(&*&*&******

I ended up picking a 2 HP 1800 RPM motor from Harbor Freight, with 20% coupon it was $134, no tax since for farm use. I used an old 10 gauge extension cord that had been chewed by a dog. Wired it into the motor and it ran great. Decided to put it on the cement mixer.

Like I did when I installed the pool pump motor, I stood the cement mixer up on its end. I slipped in the mud a bit and lost my grip and the cement mixer dropped about 6". Thinking how well this was built, I think anything of it. Proceeded to put the motor on. Set the mixer back down and proceeded to put the belt on. It seemed strange, it didn't turn easy like it usually does, I thought where it has been sitting out. I then walk around it, when it hit the ground it broke the main support that holds the drum. About a 2" piece of cast iron. I don't see a way this could be welded or fixed and not knowing the manufacturer or age of this thing, I think it is done. 15 years of storage and finally get all of the parts to make it work and I pull a bonehead move and break it like a dumbass.

Now I just hope I can get HF to take the motor back and return my money. Then to decide if I want to buy a cement mixer or just continue to mix in the wheel barrow for my occasional small jobs.
 
Cast can be welded by someone who knows what he's doing. If you don't mind smaller batches HF sells a mixer Like I had in Texas. Used it quite a bit for 4 yrs including running scrap iron in it with pecans to knock the husks off.
Mike
 
Here are pictures of the piece that broke.

The first pic is the bar that the drum is attached to.

The second pic is where the arm used to be attached and how it is attached to the frame.

The third pic is kind of dark, but you can see where the bar would attach to the piece that is still attached to the frame. It looks funny right now because one of the teeth for the drum is actually resting on it holding the drum up.
 

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A good welding shop could make short work of that. They could use one of a couple of methods. One would be braze welding with bronze. Another is to torch weld it with cast iron rod. There are also specialty rods for stick welders for welding cast. Pre heat is necessary for a stress free weldment.

I hope you are able to find a shop in your area.

Regards, Kirk
 
My son has a friend that went to the vocational school and is currently working a body shop. He likes to try a lot of different things. He wanted to play with trying to fix the mixer, so I've been letting him play with it. He hasn't had a lot of success with it, but he is learning. He is a good kid, hard worker and actually is trying to make something more of himself than his father. If I can help him learn what or what not to do, so be it even if it "costs" me a cement mixed, LOL.
 
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