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Photos of my ST4
- Thread starter mchowser
- Start date
Lyndon
Bronze Member
This is a fairly early machine, I'd guess pre 1965. They dropped the full sliding sunroof fairly early on, and added extra windows in the rear. I believe the extra windows come in in 67 or 68. The Grousers are the "Old-Style", before they came out with the Cast A-Symettrical ones, so it's definately Pre-Transitional year(66). Around the same time they went to taller windshields and changed the tunnel/shifter mount. This machines original engine would have been the 1192 CC , 116 Industrial. What's inside the engine compartment? If the original air cleaner is on it: Modified BUS Oil bath will mean it's pre 63, Flat/Silver Non Oil Bath air cleaner will make it after late 62.
Yes, the shift pattern is on the brass plate. I'll take engine photos tommorrow and look for a production # on the motor.
NorthernRedneck
Well-known member
Nice looking st4. Looks like it's in good shape.
Lyndon
Bronze Member
I had the shift pattern plates made in roughly 96. They were for: The first annual ST4 Owners Meet, held at Stampeed Pass Washington. I had some additional ones made that were not for the meet and gave them away. Somewhere along the line I must have given the previous owner that plate. But I don't remember the Green interior?
This cat was purchased from Washington ST and moved to Mandan ND where it resided for five or so years...access for a hunting cabin and farm. I saw it mentioned here as for sale on Ebay a few weeks ago and contacted seller...who, coincidentally, I already knew. He was kind enought to deliver it, now here it is. Engine pics to follow.
Snowtrac Nome
member formerly known as dds
nice looking rig tracks look a little suggest tightening them up befor they start eating away at the sprokets
couchloafer
Member
I have a 1964 with 5 lugs......I also have two parts cats that were purchased new by their original owner in 1966. One is #768 and has 6 lugs and the other one is missing its plate but has 5 lugs.....the original owner sold them to me last year and assured me they purchased them together new from the dealer. I dont know if 1966 is the transitional year for the 5 to 6 lug or if the dealer sold them a "new" 1965 and a 1966??
Lyndon
Bronze Member
Pre- 64 machines had 5 lug wheels that were aluminum alloy in the center and had a steel outer rim riveted on. Snow and Ice would get behind the wheel and ocassionally break the entire center of the wheel out. So they came out with an all steel wheel, in 5 lug. That wheel developed fractures and cracks at the bolt holes and was replaced with the 6 lug which had massive washers to strengthen the area around the holes. The 6 Lug hub will go right on to the 5 lug spindle. I came across a 64 that had one of each, a 6 lug on one side, and a 5 lug on the other. It had previously belonged to NorthWest Tell out of White Horse, Yukon Territory. I also met other owners that had upgraded from the 5 lug to the 6 lug. I've never seen a Trac Master that had 5 lug, so by the time they started producing them the manufacture had abandon the 5 lug. When I bought-out Northwest Tell of our their spare parts I was delighted to find both a brand new, unused spare 5 lug rims in All steel as well as the earlier Aluminum/Steel riveted one so that I had a genuine correct alloy spare for the one machine that I was keeping "All Original". I did cheat and up grade the little 1192 CC ("1200") 35 Hp industrial 116 motor, and put a "Big-Bore" kit on it upping it to 1400+CC, and upgraded the carb to a 30 PICT from the original 28 PIC. But even a pretty "In-The-Know" VW Guy, or more importantly a JUDGE at VW meets wasn't able to catch that!....." Have Snow-Cat,.. Will Travel "
This winter I should be helping the owner of an early ST4, # 180, to rebuild his machine. I convinced him to buy a newer Track master that only had 100 hours on it before getting crushed by snow, for parts. That one will be getting the 5 lug to 6 lug up-grade. I'll see if I can't get the owner interested in the Forums Forums so that he posts pictures of his machine.
This winter I should be helping the owner of an early ST4, # 180, to rebuild his machine. I convinced him to buy a newer Track master that only had 100 hours on it before getting crushed by snow, for parts. That one will be getting the 5 lug to 6 lug up-grade. I'll see if I can't get the owner interested in the Forums Forums so that he posts pictures of his machine.
here are the engine photos....feedback greatly appeciated. Hole near exhaust manifold are present as list encourages. Look like 6vt has been converted to 12 volt and electonic rotor has replaced points. Inline fuel filter temporarily removed as fuel line was cracked. Will do compression test in a few days to see how we're sitting block wise.
Attachments
Compression test confims need for major overhaul. Forums advice says the 40 hp 1200cc engine is a "poor candidate for overhaul" ie (P.O.S.).
Would like to upgrade to 1600cc engine.
Anyone have experience wih purchasing turnkey VW 1600's. There are several remanufacters/builders. GEX for example--another one, bostonbob, gets high marks on the type2 vw list.
Also they make an industrial 1600??? Is this the route to go or should I just stick to the beetle 1600 longblock??
Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated.
Would like to upgrade to 1600cc engine.
Anyone have experience wih purchasing turnkey VW 1600's. There are several remanufacters/builders. GEX for example--another one, bostonbob, gets high marks on the type2 vw list.
Also they make an industrial 1600??? Is this the route to go or should I just stick to the beetle 1600 longblock??
Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated.
Bobcat
Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
Also, since you're in MT, you might give this guy a call as he's in your region and somewhat specializes in the industrial VWs...
Brax Euro Parts
Highway 43 & 91
Divide, MT, 59727
(406) 267-3321
Last edited:
couchloafer
Member
I believe mtmogs got his turnkey from these guys in Oregon
http://strictlyforeign.com/
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=13653
Mark,
The guy at Strictly Foreign is Mark Wolter as I recall. I can't give a concrete opinion on the guy, except to say that the build was fast (~3 weeks) and I haven't blown up the engine yet. He built a 1995cc for me which I think you saw (and drove) on your visit a few years back.
If you go with a 1600cc as a replacement, then you're probably okay with the old style upright oil cooler inside the shroud, but you'll need to specify that with the builder. This option won't require you to do any sheet metal work to modify the intake air horn. If you're thinking of a build approaching 2 liters, then you'll either want to go with the newer "doghouse" style oil cooler which will you require you to fab a new intake horn as the oil cooler sticks out to the rear of the shroud, or consider an external full-flow oil cooler.
The guy at Strictly Foreign is Mark Wolter as I recall. I can't give a concrete opinion on the guy, except to say that the build was fast (~3 weeks) and I haven't blown up the engine yet. He built a 1995cc for me which I think you saw (and drove) on your visit a few years back.
If you go with a 1600cc as a replacement, then you're probably okay with the old style upright oil cooler inside the shroud, but you'll need to specify that with the builder. This option won't require you to do any sheet metal work to modify the intake air horn. If you're thinking of a build approaching 2 liters, then you'll either want to go with the newer "doghouse" style oil cooler which will you require you to fab a new intake horn as the oil cooler sticks out to the rear of the shroud, or consider an external full-flow oil cooler.
Yeah, Brax is a pretty cool outfit. I found some old mercedes engine parts for the unimog from him.
Also, since you're in MT, you might give this guy a call as he's in your region and somewhat specializes in the industrial VWs...
Brax Euro Parts
Highway 43 & 91
Divide, MT, 59727
(406) 267-3321
Snowtrac Nome
member formerly known as dds
MY ST HAS A VW 1600 BUG MOTOR IN IT SEEMS TO BE ALL THE POWER I NEED IVE RUN IT SUMMER IN TEMPS AS HIGH AS 60 AND NOT HAD A OVER HEATING PROBLEM AND I'M MISSING THE FRONT HEAT SHIELD YES THAT IS THE LAST THING I HAVE TO FAB UP I TRY NOT TO EXCEED 4000 RPM BUT HAVE HIT 5K ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS
I ALSO HAVE A VACCUUM ADVANCE DISTRIBUTOR WHICH THE LOCAL HIPPIE SAYS HIGHLY DESIREABLE THE ONLY PROBLEM IS I APPEAR TO HAVE THE OLD CARB FROM THE 1200 CCMOTOR EQUATES TO A SMALL FLAT SPOT BUT RUNS GOOD OTHERWISE
I ALSO HAVE A VACCUUM ADVANCE DISTRIBUTOR WHICH THE LOCAL HIPPIE SAYS HIGHLY DESIREABLE THE ONLY PROBLEM IS I APPEAR TO HAVE THE OLD CARB FROM THE 1200 CCMOTOR EQUATES TO A SMALL FLAT SPOT BUT RUNS GOOD OTHERWISE
Lyndon
Bronze Member
Part 1: The previous history of your new ST4:
Part 2: VW Engine Replacement or Upgrade recomendations.
One winter he and several neighbors shell out several thousand dollars for a guy with a D7 cat to dig out the access road. This take 2 and a half days.
Then one day while fishing in alaska he spots this Snow Trac. He buy's it, has it shipped to Washington. It's doesn't run. It sits around dead for a year or 2. Finally the wife declairs an ultimatum: FIX IT BY THANKSGIVING OR GET RID OF IT!
In trying to find out about his machine, where to get parts, where to get a service manual,... he eventually gets directed to a guy living right in Washington. He calls and calls, leaves messages, no answer.
Enter LYNDON: I get home from a 9 week "Hitch" on the Trans Alaska Pipeline about 5 days before Thanksgiving. There's like 25 messages on my answering machine, the guy is getting desperate and time is running out. I agree to help him out. We haul the dead snow cat about 50 miles to my shop. We worked on it day and night. Theres a flood! The power goes out! Wading around in about one foot of water, with a small generator up on the work bench to power lights we keep working. Half way thru thanksgiving day the wife shows up and hauls him off to Portland Oregon to the realitives for dinner, but the very next day he's back and we complete the work. We probably put in 150 to 200 hours on it in 6 days!
When I got my first ST4, "Old Red", a pristene '63, the air induction horn was missing but I could make out from the service manual what it did and roughly the shape it should be. I made a cardboard model, and modified it several times until I had a workable model. I had a friend make one out of metal at an HVAC tin shop. Later, I came across a good used one and was suprised how close to the original our makeshift one was. It's on your machine now! There's a picture of the guy that made it, and his wife in another thread here in the forum.
This story continues:
Part 2: VW Engine Replacement or Upgrade recomendations.
PART 1 "THANKSGIVING"
A commercial fisherman who lives in Washington, and works a good deal of the year in Alaska has this parcel of land in the Cascade Mountains. His mile and a half driveway looks like a ski slope. He tries various truck and plow combinations but the snow gets too deep and he, the wife, and their 2 daughters have to "hoof-it" up and down with groceries for some months of the winter. One winter he and several neighbors shell out several thousand dollars for a guy with a D7 cat to dig out the access road. This take 2 and a half days.
Then one day while fishing in alaska he spots this Snow Trac. He buy's it, has it shipped to Washington. It's doesn't run. It sits around dead for a year or 2. Finally the wife declairs an ultimatum: FIX IT BY THANKSGIVING OR GET RID OF IT!
In trying to find out about his machine, where to get parts, where to get a service manual,... he eventually gets directed to a guy living right in Washington. He calls and calls, leaves messages, no answer.
Enter LYNDON: I get home from a 9 week "Hitch" on the Trans Alaska Pipeline about 5 days before Thanksgiving. There's like 25 messages on my answering machine, the guy is getting desperate and time is running out. I agree to help him out. We haul the dead snow cat about 50 miles to my shop. We worked on it day and night. Theres a flood! The power goes out! Wading around in about one foot of water, with a small generator up on the work bench to power lights we keep working. Half way thru thanksgiving day the wife shows up and hauls him off to Portland Oregon to the realitives for dinner, but the very next day he's back and we complete the work. We probably put in 150 to 200 hours on it in 6 days!
When I got my first ST4, "Old Red", a pristene '63, the air induction horn was missing but I could make out from the service manual what it did and roughly the shape it should be. I made a cardboard model, and modified it several times until I had a workable model. I had a friend make one out of metal at an HVAC tin shop. Later, I came across a good used one and was suprised how close to the original our makeshift one was. It's on your machine now! There's a picture of the guy that made it, and his wife in another thread here in the forum.
This story continues:
Lyndon
Bronze Member
So the Fisherman and I and his whole family became good friends. We ski together. Just talked to him last week.
I did some work on another guy's Snow Trac. He had a cabin not too far from the fishermans house. After I completed the work and he was trailering his machine home he saw the fishermans Snow Trac sitting along side the road. He asked the fishermans wife; " Mind if I look at your Snow Trac?" to which the fishermans wife emphatically responded:"Yes, but it's NOT for sale!"
At some later time I suggested that he pick up a "Duce and a Half". HE got a 2 & 1/2 ton Army 6 by 6, fitted it with a big plow and clears his driveway with that. All for about 4000$ and no longer needed the Snow Trac.
So that's why your snow trac has the dash plaque, that Air Induction Horn, the Exhaust up the back as well as a new brake drum and a new spindle. It also has the read door off a Trac Master that I parted out.
I did some work on another guy's Snow Trac. He had a cabin not too far from the fishermans house. After I completed the work and he was trailering his machine home he saw the fishermans Snow Trac sitting along side the road. He asked the fishermans wife; " Mind if I look at your Snow Trac?" to which the fishermans wife emphatically responded:"Yes, but it's NOT for sale!"
At some later time I suggested that he pick up a "Duce and a Half". HE got a 2 & 1/2 ton Army 6 by 6, fitted it with a big plow and clears his driveway with that. All for about 4000$ and no longer needed the Snow Trac.
So that's why your snow trac has the dash plaque, that Air Induction Horn, the Exhaust up the back as well as a new brake drum and a new spindle. It also has the read door off a Trac Master that I parted out.
VW ENGINES
A stock 1600 will go in with only minor modifications. They are available from a bunch of places in California. Pick up a copy of VW Trends or Hot VW's. Dozens of places advertise there and have unbeatable prices. It helps to know some "VW Guy's" that can turn you on to which ones are better buys. You can get them short block or long block up to about 2000 CC's. Don't get one that has the oil cooler hanging out the back of the fan housing. It wants to hit the variator. Also stay away from Dual intake ports, they also get in the way. You will have to modify the heater boxes to get a newer clean air engine to fit. The nozzles where the air comes out of the heater boxes need to be swiveled around as they hit the variator towers. It's not too hard, you cut the tin shrouding and braze it back on. That's the way Snow Trac did it.Thanks for the history on my cat. We purchased this for the same reason as the fisherman. We have a drive way that is a mile from the nearest plowed road. We intend to use it for access to and from our home, going over the snow and not through it. We'll probable go with the 1600..plenty of time as we won't need this machine for at least another year. Though, I'm dying to take it out for a spin.