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Northern Illinois University shooting

DaveNay

DaveNay

Klaatu barada nikto
About 45 minutes ago. Rumor of four dead. No confirmed facts yet.....

Chicago Tribune story.
y Jason Meisner, Jeremy Gorner and Tina Shah | Tribune reporters
4:20 PM CST, February 14, 2008

Several people were confirmed wounded Thursday afternoon in a shooting in a lecture hall on the campus of Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, according to authorities.

A statement posted at 3:50 p.m. on the university's Web site said "several people" had been taken away by ambulance.

Dominique Broxton, 22, a student from Oak Park, said she could see two wounded students from her dorm room.

"The ambulance took away two students on the ground right outside my dorm," she said. "I don't know them. They looked bloody. Where I am right now, there are a lot of police, at least a dozen. There are police cars and trucks everywhere."

Broxton said the scene was chaotic.

"I saw a lot of confusion," she said. "Students were running. People really didn't know what was going on. There is an intercom system inside the dorm. Someone came on and stated that someone had been caught. They said they caught the shooter and that we should remain calm and stay in our rooms. I am in my room now."

Theresa Komitis, spokeswoman at Kishwaukee Medical Center in DeKalb, said as many as 15 patients were expected to be brought to the hospital and possibly other area facilities. She had no further details as of 4 p.m. There was no immediate confirmation from law enforcement or the hospital that 15 people had been injured.

The DeKalb County coroner's office said no fatalities had been immediately reported.

Officers responded to a call of shots fired on campus around 3 p.m., according to DeKalb County Sheriff Roger Scott.

A professor at the school said there was a person with a gun in Cole Hall, a large lecture hall in Watson Hall.

Scott said it was possible the assailant may have taken his own life.

The school posted a warning on its Web site at 3:20 p.m. that stated: "There has been a report of a possible gunman on campus. Get to a safe area and take precautions until given the all clear. Avoid the King Commons and all buildings in that vicinity." Classes have been canceled for the rest of the day, the university said.

The campus is currently on lockdown, campus police spokeswoman Pat Erickson said.

Police and fire officials were on the scene.Tribune reporter Jo Napolitano contributed.​


Fox News story.

CNN is reporting 18 people shot.

Oh yeah....I live only about 8 miles from campus. :4_11_9:
 
School Shooting: DeKalb, Illinois

This is breaking news, happening not to far from where DaveNay feeds his horses!

Gunman opens fire at N. Illinois U.
5 minutes ago

Northern Illinois University says there has been a shooting on campus and several people have been taken away by ambulance. University officials warned students on the school Web site to get to a safe area and "take precautions until given the all clear."

The messages says everyone should avoid the King Commons and all buildings in that area.

Messages were left for university police and police in DeKalb, located about 65 miles west of Chicago.​


OOPS, DUPLICATE THREAD! Go to the thread started by Dave: http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=14182
 
CBS Chicago is stating 2 dead. Did not specify if one of those is the gunman.

They have an eyewitness on the cellphone now, he said a guy walked into his geology classroom wearing all black, with a beanie hat and a shotgun. He only saw the shotgun and he ran out of the room. He said he did not see the shooter use the pistol. He saw a guy near him get shot with the shotgun.

WGN is reporting from a hospital and the hospital spokeswoman is stating they have 4 people with head wounds in triage/surgery. At least one or two were transferred to Rockford. 3 are/were airlifted.
 
CBS still claims 2 dead, they also state that the gunman is one of those 2 (4:57pm)
 
Just coming back from dinner and the president of the university announced 6 dead, 5 plus the shooter. 2 guys, 4 girls. The shooter WAS a student in spring of 07 but not fall 07. He was apparently currently enrolled at a different university. Reports are 1 shotgun plus 2 handguns.

Now I have to wonder about the new proposals in Alabama . . . will this give them more support or more opposition???

See this thread: http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=14177
 
I'm guessing it depends on what side of the fence you are on. But from my side, it will give it a lot of support. If someone in the room had a gun, they could have taken him out.
 
cowgirl said:
I'm guessing it depends on what side of the fence you are on. But from my side, it will give it a lot of support. If someone in the room had a gun, they could have taken him out.
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I'm with her...

and I really wonder why I can't carry (either open or concealed) at my college of choice, the Indiana University of Pennsylvania...

Hearing this almost makes me feel uncomfortable going to class tomorrow...
 
Seems some people think more of their money than other peopld. You guard a pile of money with plenty of fire-power, right?
 
​

But it's against the law to bring guns into a college. How could this have happened? Oh, wait! Criminals don't obey the laws.

​
 
It has now been reported that the entire length of time, from the first shot to the last shot was about 2 minutes.

Just curious, but why can't the police respond to these things in time? Oh, and by the way, has anyone looked at the first line of my signature line? Its been there for the past couple of months. Not as an insult to the police officers, because I deeply respect them, but as a statement of truth about the reality, and horror of violence.

So we can lock down open campuses, places guards at the doors with metal detectors, or we can think rationally about what needs to be done.
 
Reaper497 said:
I'm with her...

and I really wonder why I can't carry (either open or concealed) at my college of choice, the Indiana University of Pennsylvania...

Hearing this almost makes me feel uncomfortable going to class tomorrow...
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I'd carry at school if I were you. :thumb:
 
Av8r3400 said:
Here comes the next round of obama-osama gun laws!
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In the LIBERAL states I'm sure that you are correct.

On the other hand, in the SANE states I think there may be a backlash against gun-free zones.

By the way, there is more bad news from Illinois, another student died:

7 dead in N. Illinois U. hall shooting

By CARYN ROUSSEAU and DEANNA BELLANDI, Associated Press Writers
11 minutes ago

DEKALB, Ill. - Another student shot when a gunman opened fire at a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University has died, bringing the toll to seven, including the gunman, a coroner said Friday.​
 
B_Skurka said:
It has now been reported that the entire length of time, from the first shot to the last shot was about 2 minutes.

Just curious, but why can't the police respond to these things in time?
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I don't understand this question Bob. Everything I have been hearing says that university police were at the scene within 2-3 minutes, and as you say, everything was over by then. I would ask, what better response would you be asking for? 2-3 minutes sure seems like a very fast response time to me. I have yet to hear of teleportation being developed yet, so the officers still have to get from point a to point b the old fashioned way using their cars and feet. And this is among a campus full of 25,000 students many of who are pedestrians, and interfere with vehicle traffic.

I think comparing the response time in this situation to the one you had at home with your (false) alarm is completely absurd.
 
B_Skurka said:
It has now been reported that the entire length of time, from the first shot to the last shot was about 2 minutes.

Just curious, but why can't the police respond to these things in time? Oh, and by the way, has anyone looked at the first line of my signature line?
DaveNay said:
I don't understand this question Bob. Everything I have been hearing says that university police were at the scene within 2-3 minutes, and as you say, everything was over by then.
. . .
I think comparing the response time in this situation to the one you had at home with your (false) alarm is completely absurd.
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Dave, I was intentionally being ridiculous to make a point. The point being that there is absolutely NO way that police can protect every public space.

Take a look at ANY of the mass shooting, or attempted mass shootings, that have occurred. One thing rings true in virtually every case. The shootings last only moments and are almost always over before emergency vehicles can respond.

These shootings are incredibly tragic, but for some reason we can't seem to learn the lessons that they teach us.

There are rare instances when these shooters are stopped by police and in virtually every instance they were stopped by off-duty officers (or armed citizens) who already were on the scene as students/shoppers/bystanders. A very close friend of mine is an officer in the western suburbs and is the county liaison officer to the homeland security office in Washington. We talk a few times a week and he is very clear, he says there is nothing that police can do unless they are very lucky. He says that the only thing that can be done is for people to plan for the worst.

So let me please restate: When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

This is not a criticism of the university police, or the DeKalb police, it is a statement of fact that has been proved true time and time again and it is something that we must start to take seriously.

By the way here is the BRADY CAMPAIGN's response: http://www.bradycampaign.org/action/schools/ and http://www.bradynetwork.org/site/Survey?SURVEY_ID=2960&ACTION_REQUIRED=URI_ACTION_USER_REQUESTS
 
Glink said:
Wonder if he had his FOID card?
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Yes. He appears to have purchased 2 of the guns from a dealer in Champaign, IL. He purchased them lawfully. He had a FOID card. He had no history of violence. There was no reason to deny him any purchase. The guns were all purchased in advance, at least with two of the guns purchased from the dealer in Champaign, he had been in possession of the guns since Feb 9. There is some indication that he was on some sort of medication, but that he stopped taking medications, there was no information given if the medication was for any mental condition or if the medication was for a physical illness, injury, etc.

Remington Model 870 12 gauge shotgun*
Glock 9mm*
Sig Sauer 9mm
High Point .380ACP


* ATF has confirmed these two guns were legally purchased at the dealer in Champaign. He passed all background checks. All state and federal laws were complied with. ATF had no information that the other two guns were illegal and presumed them to be legal pending additional investigation.
 
DaveNay said:
I don't understand this question Bob. Everything I have been hearing says that university police were at the scene within 2-3 minutes, and as you say, everything was over by then. I would ask, what better response would you be asking for? 2-3 minutes sure seems like a very fast response time to me. I have yet to hear of teleportation being developed yet, so the officers still have to get from point a to point b the old fashioned way using their cars and feet. And this is among a campus full of 25,000 students many of who are pedestrians, and interfere with vehicle traffic.

I think comparing the response time in this situation to the one you had at home with your (false) alarm is completely absurd.
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Agree, very good response time. But keep in mind the 'police' are NOT going to just rush in on the action. They WILL wait for backup. MORE TIME. If an ARMED CITIZEN had been ON SCENE, the incident could have been over in, say, 30 SECONDS? Several lives saved.
 
The police don't protect you, they arrive after the fact and secure the crime scene to get the evidence to find the criminal to prevent that person from repeating his/her crime. Very rarely do the Police catch a criminal in the act, except for speeders... The majority of crime takes place within five minutes and the criminal is long gone before the police get there.

It is your personal responsibility to protect yourself and always has been since man was standing outside of a cave with a lit fire to keep the animals away.

It is the Politician's that are taking your right to protect yourself and your family away. and have been doing so for years, Liberals mostly, which are the Democrats in general. Criminals simply do not pay attention to gun, drug, rape, murder or other laws in general and a new law won't change that.

Vote!
 
Since no one answered your question specifically Bob, I will... Yes I had noticed it and got quite a chuckle out of it. It's so true. I hate to see what is going to happen from all this. Yet more proof that guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people.
 
Anyone think that media is partially to blame for giving these wackos the idea to do this? I think we would see a decline in these types of incidents if they just stop covering it so much. Before Columbine happened I really don't recall stuff like this happening as often as it does now.

Same kind of thing happened with D.C. Sniper.
 
Criminals simply do not pay attention to gun, drug, rape, murder or other laws in general and a new law won't change that.


AMEN AMEN AMEN! they do however pay attention to armed citizens and those that can stop them dead in their tracks
 
blondebullfrog said:
Anyone think that media is partially to blame for giving these wackos the idea to do this? I think we would see a decline in these types of incidents if they just stop covering it so much. Before Columbine happened I really don't recall stuff like this happening as often as it does now.

Same kind of thing happened with D.C. Sniper.
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Absolutely!! The media makes them famous so the next nut has something to look forward to.:pat:
 
This speech by Bobby Kennedy was played this morning on the radio as I was driving to work. Forget for a moment your opinion of the Kennedy family, this is an outstanding speech.

The speech can also be heard on YouTube.
On the Mindless Menace of Violence​
 City Club of Cleveland, Cleveland, Ohio
April 5, 1968

This is a time of shame and sorrow. It is not a day for politics. I have saved this one opportunity, my only event of today, to speak briefly to you about the mindless menace of violence in America which again stains our land and every one of our lives.

It is not the concern of any one race. The victims of the violence are black and white, rich and poor, young and old, famous and unknown. They are, most important of all, human beings whom other human beings loved and needed. No one - no matter where he lives or what he does - can be certain who will suffer from some senseless act of bloodshed. And yet it goes on and on and on in this country of ours.

Why? What has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyr's cause has ever been stilled by an assassin's bullet.

No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil disorders. A sniper is only a coward, not a hero; and an uncontrolled, uncontrollable mob is only the voice of madness, not the voice of reason.

Whenever any American's life is taken by another American unnecessarily - whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of the law, by one man or a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence - whenever we tear at the fabric of the life which another man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and his children, the whole nation is degraded.

"Among free men," said Abraham Lincoln, "there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and those who take such appeal are sure to lose their cause and pay the costs."

Yet we seemingly tolerate a rising level of violence that ignores our common humanity and our claims to civilization alike. We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far-off lands. We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire whatever weapons and ammunition they desire.

Too often we honor swagger and bluster and wielders of force; too often we excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered dreams of others. Some Americans who preach non-violence abroad fail to practice it here at home.

Some who accuse others of inciting riots have by their own conduct invited them.

Some look for scapegoats, others look for conspiracies, but this much is clear: violence breeds violence, repression brings retaliation, and only a cleansing of our whole society can remove this sickness from our soul.

For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. This is the slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter.

This is the breaking of a man's spirit by denying him the chance to stand as a father and as a man among other men. And this too afflicts us all.

I have not come here to propose a set of specific remedies nor is there a single set. For a broad and adequate outline we know what must be done.

When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered.

We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force. For all this, there are no final answers.

Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence.

We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others.

We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.

Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution.

But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.

Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again.
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From the Chicago Tribune, the prospective of a college teacher
www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-oped0219proffeb19,0,4089576.story
chicagotribune.com

Commentary

Vulnerable schools need protection

Guns, training for teachers may be answer

By David McGrath
February 19, 2008

Thirty-nine students attend my American literature seminar this semester. Our classroom is the first one you see on the left, as you enter the unlocked humanities building.

If a psychotic gunman were searching for a tight cluster of multiple bodies -- an easy target for seeking revenge, casting out demons, achieving immortality or whatever else his perverse purpose happens to be -- he would find my classroom door wide open. He could assume a position straddling the threshold and blocking the exit, so that he could fire at the trapped students at will, reload his weapon and fire once again. We would be sitting ducks in yet another American schoolhouse tragedy.

But if I were packing a loaded automatic pistol in a shoulder holster beneath my jacket, we might have half a chance.

I am no Rambo. I am a middle-age English professor with no military background. But as an outdoorsman, I have a passing acquaintance with the use of firearms, experience which could be refined to a skill of safety and competence, with adequate training.

Years in classroom management in urban high schools, colleges and universities makes me attuned and alert to every individual, and their comings and goings in my classroom.

And because of the responsibility I feel toward my students, I would do whatever I could to protect their lives, even without a weapon. So why not arm me and give them a reasonable chance?

Two years ago, I wrote an essay expressing skepticism about arming school personnel. But that was before the mass murders at Virginia Tech, Louisiana Technical College and Northern Illinois University, among others.

My perspective has changed because the country is changing cataclysmically. The rash of cold-blooded serial killings on campuses is now less an anomaly than a wave of terror. It demands new initiatives to safeguard the lives of people seeking a college education.

I remain adamantly opposed to permitting students to carry concealed weapons. The prospect of thousands of teenage and 20-something students carrying guns on college campuses is only asking for trouble.

But training and equipping seasoned adults, who also happen to be select and exhaustively screened college professors, is a hopeful solution.

I am not suggesting arming all teachers. I have had many brilliant colleagues, who are my betters when it comes to teaching, who, nonetheless, do not inspire trust when they use the office paper cutter, let alone a 9 mm Glock.

My suggestion, rather, is for the institution of a voluntary program for willing, able and properly trained school personnel to carry weapons.

My hope is that they will never have to use them. My belief is that a future, inevitable school sniper will be stopped dead by a sociology or economics or literature professor, the news of which may lead to a subsequent, precipitous decline in school shootings.

Any such proposal will meet a lot of resistance. After all, we worry about guns, no matter who has them. I know individual school security guards whom I'd rather see with a baton or a can of pepper spray than a Smith & Wesson.

But besides being a teacher, I am also a parent with three children who have attended colleges away from home.

And I believe that, as a father, if I'm apprised that coach Jones in the gym building, and professor Maddox in the arts center, and Dr. Heinz in the science lab, have all volunteered for weapons training, because they wanted to protect the lives of my children, I would sleep a lot better at night.

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David McGrath, an emeritus professor at the College of DuPage, is teaching English at the University of South Alabama.

Copyright © 2008, Chicago Tribune
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