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Need some advice on the right Snowcat

K

Kravdog

New member
Hi all---

Looking for some help here. This was my second year operating a very, very small & private ski/snowboard park here in Indiana.We had a great winter in terms of natural snow, but we really need to start grooming next season. We also make our own snow. Our total area is about 3 acres, with 50-70' or so of vertical, on runs from 250-300 ft long to a long run of almost 1000'. The trick is that all of this is in the woods.

http://samsterrainpark.tumblr.com

Obviously, we will need to clear out some additional trees. Also, we will probably keep some of the glades without grooming.

So, with all of this, what would be some recommendations for a small cat with grooming capabilities?
 
My suggestion woud be a Bombardier "Bombi" with winter tracks, front blade, and a drag of the correct size for your machine. Made into the 1980's I think. Versitile and attachments are out there still.

Regards, Kirk
 
Just because something has tracks does not mean it is a snowcat. I believe you are looking for a small snowcat.

Stay away from all the SW series machines. They are built to be extra heavyweight because they are designed to PUSH snow instead of to drive over snow. SW = SideWalk. They are Side Walk Plow machines used for snow clearing in urban centers that get a lot of snow. Its is NOT a snowcat but it looks like one.

A J5 is also not a traditional Snowcat but rather is a muskeg type tractor that can be used on various surfaces, one of which is snow. They are NOT for use on powder, but will work on snow and were designed for pulling trees/logs in woodland forestry operation, and similar work where TRACTION on loose ground surface is needed. These are also heavyweight machines.

A Bombi, which appears very similar to a SW42/48/52 or a J5 probably shares some mechanicals from both, but is is a true snowcat, designed for over snow applications, use with grooming equipment, etc. It is both lighter and has much wider tracks and a different style of track and imparts very little pressure per square inch of ground.

I'd point out to that you can get a Bombi with different width tracks, I'd suggest that you do NOT need one of the wide track Bombi machines but even a narrow track Bombi will have better snow ability than a J5 and certainly better than a SW series machine.
 
Man, that kinda hurt. I mean, I know you all do not consider the sw48 to be a real snowcat, but to come right out and say it. Hmph.

Ain't them snowtracs the ones with the itty bitty luv bug engine?
 
blystons said:
Man, that kinda hurt. I mean, I know you all do not consider the sw48 to be a real snowcat, but to come right out and say it. Hmph.
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A SW48 is actually a winter tractor, not a snowcat. Its NOT designed to ride ON TOP of the snow, which is exactly what a snowcat is designed to do. Its very heavy for its size too, which makes it less suitable as a snowcat. It will work on hardpack but I'd hate to try to run one up a hillside in wet deep heavy Indiana snow, it would probably get stuck just out of reach of the winch cable of a Jeep.

A J5 is an all weather/most terrain tractor and would be more suitable. But in deep snow neither are going to be particularly appropriate for grooming slopes, mild as the slopes may be.


blystons said:
Ain't them snowtracs the ones with the itty bitty luv bug engine?
Click to expand...
Yup. But remember, snowcats are designed to be light and to impart very little pressure per square inch of ground contact. Being light they don't necessarily have to have high horsepower engines. Its actually a testament to the genius of their drive systems (both Snow Trac & Kristi) that they can use 40 to 50 hp engines and still be very capable snow machines in remote mountain terrain.
 
LOL

Now that is a committed owner!

Do you really think a bombi has the power to work a plow and a groomer?

I can see an sw tipping over in powder, but stuck? Naw. They just wallow down to permafrost and start tunneling.
 
blystons said:
Do you really think a bombi has the power to work a plow and a groomer?.
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Not a plow, but yes, trail and slope groomers. There are plenty of grooming implements made for the Bombi. They are small scale. But this thread is about grooming short trails on a 3 acre property. A Bombi would be perfect, I think Kirk's recommendation was spot on. Plenty of other great choices too. But a SW48 is not one of them. JMO
 
I do not know what your budget is but I tend to think maybe in a little bit more modern terms and I have experience with cheap and expensive ways of grooming. I was thinking to do a reasonable cheap job you could look into something like a VMC RT-01 which can pull a small sort of grooming device or you could look into a Bombardier BR160 with a tiller as the more expensive route. There are small PB's as well but their starting problems would keep me from ever considering them. There was an LMC 1800 on this site with a tiller. The 1800 was ok as a cat but you have to know it to keep it going. The wiring was poor and the hydraulic valves were cheap and leaked like mad.
 
I would say something like a br120 or a 250 skidozer a Thiokol sprite or 201 may also work for you. on the bombie and br100 plus I have lots of stick time in them they will groom down hill ok .going up hill I would expect they would pick their own path. one of the reasons for grooming is to move the snow back up the hill also wouldn't overlook a smaller tucker. I think a real grooming machine like a Thiokol 2100 may be overkill but because of their size there are some good deals out there.
 
Your situation sounds similar to Ullr's Gulch http://z1.ifrm.com/1500/199/0/p1035181/rsz_1rsz_big_view_ullrs_gulch.jpg , our hill on the farm.

I had a Bombardier SV200 with a 250/6 Ford, but I'm way happier with a SV-252 with a 300/6 Ford in it. I tow a 12' Valley Engineering Powder Maker when needed and a 10' homemade culvert roller to make base. My goal is powder days.

I wouldn't go smaller, but I also wouldn't shy away from a larger machine like the 2100.
 
thew nice thing about the 2100 is the aggressive tracks do process some of your snow before the groomer crosses over to smooth it
 
Thanks for all the input fellas. Budget? Isn't that always a loaded question? I am having an internal battle on this one- lets say somewhere between $5k and $15k.

Paul, I have read about your setup on on another site. Nice work. My biggest difference, especially when it comes to the Cat will be the fact that I am in a wooded area. I have been enticed by a couple of PB170's, but I think that Cat is going to be just too wide. Why are you happier with the 252 vs. 200...just power?
 
My vote for your application would be the Bombi. Small yet still does the job. Very maneuverable in tight spots which by the looks of it you have. You can get a small drag that will basically lift right off the ground and tuck up nicely on the rear of the machine for those right spots.
 
Kravdog,
Thanks. This was my best year ever: 11 days of fresh!
I watched some of your videos now, so I see your situation better.
The SV-200 and SV-252 were not much different in width, both just under 8'.
I prefer the 252 for it's power for sure. The powder maker groomer is a heavy item, and it's easier to pull it uphill with the bigger cat. But the 252 also is one bogie wheel longer, so it's also more stable going downhill on steep areas. It rides nicer I'd say.
But the 250 was easier to maneuver in smaller spaces.
Looks like an 8' wide cat might be tight for your current runs, depending on how many trees go away. Also, it looks like you've got a lot less steepness than I do. So perhaps a Bombi would be a better choice than the bigger cats.
I also agree with NorthernRedneck that a mounted groomer would be better for you than a drag-behind type.
 
Fellas--- As I continue my obsessive research, I have a couple of more questions. The Bombi looks like a great cat size-wise for my wooded challenge. But, I can't seem to find any examples of people running them with powered tillers. My biggest need for the Cat is to groom up hardpack/ice that regularly occurs with thaw/freeze cycles as well as a byproduct of man-made snow. Any thoughts in this regard?
 
That is why I suggested the BR160. That LMC at auction will do you nicely as well. If you want the surface quality that I read in your posts you are going to have to spend more than 15K. The up side is that you will be happy after you have gotten over the sticker shock. Those PB 170 and 200 models can be narrowed to 10 FT including the tiller for the same cost as a BR160 and are still good workhorses.
 
HEY ALL ... I was looking for a little information about a Bombardier Snodozer ? The Model # is SV-71 ...Chassis SV71-300-56 ... Motor C5455-T24 HG .. Any information will be helpful... Thanks
 
5thEffect said:
HEY ALL ... I was looking for a little information about a Bombardier Snodozer ? The Model # is SV-71 ...Chassis SV71-300-56 ... Motor C5455-T24 HG .. Any information will be helpful... Thanks
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Well it's a 1971 skidozer most likely with a 300-6 engine pictures would help
The two most expensive parts tracks and differential either one can cost thousands to repair
 
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