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Need help on a cat decision

D

dannydangles

New member
Hey guys been lurking for a while, need a few questions answered (hopefully.)

I'll first give you an explanation of the cat I'm looking for. This will be a working cat, with a small business based around it. It needs to have a blade, for maintaining access in the deep BC powder. It will need or I can build a passenger cab, 5 passengers plus driver. Preferably a 2 seater with detachable passenger cab. It needs to be narrow enough to tow legally 8'6" here without permit.(I have capable trucks.) Mostly it needs to perform day in and day out well in the snow.

My research has led me to the spryte or LMC 1200. Problem being there are next to none in Canada, combined with the low dollar hurts this option. (30k US is too much.)

The cats I have found in Canada which might be up to the task are a 1986 Bombardier skidozer 252 with Ford 300IL6 and a 92" stance. Also I found a sv301 with a perkins 4cyl (no details yet on the stance.)

Does anyone have deep snow experience in these cats? I realize the weight penalty compared to a Spryte. Keep in mind I'm not planning on breaking trail with a load, but if I put in a trail and say it snowed 3ft, will these cats be up to the task of hauling clients and gear?

Thanks ahead of time guys

Dan
 
The Ski Dozer 252 with a Perkins is what I have had in deep snow. They are a bit heavy to be able to do a lot of blade work in deep snow, but will wallow through quite a bit with out a load on them. Very sturdy frames built to push and pull a load with..


Valley engineering made a good 6 way blade for them that is quite stout. They also made a groomer that hydrolicly folded up on the rear deck. With the blade and groomer up all the way, deep snow could be an issue..

As I recall ours had 31" wide belts on it, steel grousers. Not sure but I think there are winter tracks for these that are a bit wider and had extruded aluminum grousers.

Regards, Kirk
 
I have seen that cat, my friend did a bunch of the mechanical work. I had considered it but I thought it was sold. I'll look into it as well.
 
dannydangles said:
Hey guys been lurking for a while, need a few questions answered (hopefully.)

I'll first give you an explanation of the cat I'm looking for. This will be a working cat, with a small business based around it. It needs to have a blade, for maintaining access in the deep BC powder. It will need or I can build a passenger cab, 5 passengers plus driver. Preferably a 2 seater with detachable passenger cab. It needs to be narrow enough to tow legally 8'6" here without permit.(I have capable trucks.) Mostly it needs to perform day in and day out well in the snow.

My research has led me to the spryte or LMC 1200. Problem being there are next to none in Canada, combined with the low dollar hurts this option. (30k US is too much.)

The cats I have found in Canada which might be up to the task are a 1986 Bombardier skidozer 252 with Ford 300IL6 and a 92" stance. Also I found a sv301 with a perkins 4cyl (no details yet on the stance.)

Does anyone have deep snow experience in these cats? I realize the weight penalty compared to a Spryte. Keep in mind I'm not planning on breaking trail with a load, but if I put in a trail and say it snowed 3ft, will these cats be up to the task of hauling clients and gear?

Thanks ahead of time guys

Dan
Click to expand...


Dan,


Welcome to the forum!


Five passengers plus a driver strikes me as a full cab machine. Virtually all my experience is with Tuckers, so on the Tucker side of things you're looking for a 1543 or a 1643, and with a factory six-way blade, that is a very scarce animal. Ironically, there's one currently for sale mentioned on the forum (and I owned it for a while) but it's priced at $29K.

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=79224

and

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=78972

Personally, I'm not a fan of the detachable cabs, or even separate cabs mounted behind the main cab. Presumably, you would want to talk with the passengers, and if it's anything but one large cab, the passengers are basically segregated from the driver.


Thiokol/DMC/LMC sold some machines with factory blades, but I'm not sure how easily one can operate the machine and the blade simultaneously. Those machines have two levers for steering, and I would think your left hand would go on the left lever, and the right hand on the right lever. That leaves you a hand short for controlling the blade. Obviously, people make it work, so it must not be too bad...


I know of three Thiokol 1200s that have sold within the last two months at auction here in Salt Lake City. All were two door, wide track machines, and none had blades. But the prices were, in one word, cheap. My snowcat buddy won the first auction back in April, and it is a surprisingly nice machine. The second and third snowcats were at a timed auction that closed last Friday. We looked at both of those, and they had a lot of hours, and needed some work, too. We submitted pretty low bids on both; our thought being "We have plenty of work to do, but if we could get them at a low enough price, we could get them operational, sell them pretty cheap and still make a few bucks". But we didn't win either one...

One was a 1978 Thiokol 1200WT and the other was a 1985 DMC 1200 WT. These had Ford 300 I-6 engines and Ford C-6 transmissions. The 1978 had 9,101 hours and the 1985 had a little over 4,500. The tracks looked to be in very good - excellent shape. Each machine needed some new tires and the 1978 needed a new rear sprocket as well. Interiors reflected the hours, and they needed some reconditioning.

Surprisingly, the 1978 went for more money (we thought the 1985 was worth more, and our bid was commensurately higher). Realize there is a 12% auction premium and Utah sales tax of 6.85% added to these numbers, but the winning bid on the 1978 was $3,250 and on the 1985 was $2,600. Nope, not a misprint, those are the correct numbers.

There was a machine for sale on the forum (and on eBay) that I think would be darn close to what you're looking for. The seller dropped the price considerably from the initial asking price, and as far as I know, it didn't sell. I would suggest you try and contact him. Here's a link to the forum listing:

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=72352&highlight=thiokol
 
I had a sv-250 it was a good machine---I put a removable rear cab on it with the back wall of the cab removable----I never took the rear cab off---(lol)---it was bigger than I needed----I now have a sv-200 and it works great for what I do----I also have a pb240d its way to big and 2 trucks on mattracks------the thing to think about is on the trail repairs----on the sv-250 I had a rear u-joint go bad----made it home went to napa on a sunday and was back on the trail-----are club blew a pump on r pb. ----6500.00 later with a pump and drive motor rebuild the next winter we were back on the trail--relining brakes and u-joints are way cheaper---I have had almost every cat out there and gear driven is the way to go----I do like my pb, for pushing snow but dread break downs and the wiring---- OUCH----If you buy a newer hydro cat buy one hell of a good meter/pressure guage set and go take factory training----I did lol
 
just remember one cat is not good at everything. i have a pistenbully and snow trac.
in spring when the snow is light it can be trailered up logging roads to the snow and unloaded from a car trailer. it runs fine on the gravel between snow drifts. my small pistenbully is 4500lbs heaver ,has steel tracks. it will work but requires more effort to get it to the snow. it pushes snow good and has a removable cabin.
over your budget is the pistenbully scout and it is made for what your asking.
 
Hey Blackfoot Tucker,
Thanks for the welcome! I have looked into Tuckers a fair bit and basically have been told due to the amount of blading, especially on side hills, that I will have to do it probably is not the machine for me. Also I can see it being a pain to turn around on a logging road here in BC.

I should mention my snowcat background is running pb300s, 400s road building and passenger cat driving for a cat ski operation. I find the detachable cab quite nice when you have 14 american tourists in the back...sorry couldn't resist ;) Our 300 had a steering wheel, the rest had paddles or sticks which I far preferred for blading.

I'm glad to hear there are some Sprytes going for decent dollar amounts, I can understand that people have sunk a lot of time money into theirs and price it accordingly. I'm mechanically inclined and not afraid to tackle a project to save some money.

I did contact Northern Lights and the cat is available.
 
topwelder44 said:
I had a sv-250 it was a good machine---I put a removable rear cab on it with the back wall of the cab removable----I never took the rear cab off---(lol)---it was bigger than I needed----I now have a sv-200 and it works great for what I do----I also have a pb240d its way to big and 2 trucks on mattracks------the thing to think about is on the trail repairs----on the sv-250 I had a rear u-joint go bad----made it home went to napa on a sunday and was back on the trail-----are club blew a pump on r pb. ----6500.00 later with a pump and drive motor rebuild the next winter we were back on the trail--relining brakes and u-joints are way cheaper---I have had almost every cat out there and gear driven is the way to go----I do like my pb, for pushing snow but dread break downs and the wiring---- OUCH----If you buy a newer hydro cat buy one hell of a good meter/pressure guage set and go take factory training----I did lol
Click to expand...

I hear you, in the summer I run a spider excavator (www.spiderexcavators.com) if your interested. Dont even get me started on how expensive hydraulics are....and the down time.....lol
 
JimVT said:
just remember one cat is not good at everything. i have a pistenbully and snow trac.
in spring when the snow is light it can be trailered up logging roads to the snow and unloaded from a car trailer. it runs fine on the gravel between snow drifts. my small pistenbully is 4500lbs heaver ,has steel tracks. it will work but requires more effort to get it to the snow. it pushes snow good and has a removable cabin.
over your budget is the pistenbully scout and it is made for what your asking.
Click to expand...

I have no doubts about multiple cats being the ultimate solution. We do have plans of purchasing a br275 for another side of our business. Yes the pb scout seems lik the most modern equivalent, and maybe in the future the work will be there to justify it. Right now I have a concept and I need to prove it with a cat that I can tow. I'm a sledder and dont need anymore expensive hobbies lol!
 
A lmc 1500 might be something to consider the blade works good and can be picked up high out of the way when not in use
Probably more affordable than some of the other machines
 
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