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Muslim books

daedong

New member
Have we gone to far, are we paranoid, are we undermining on our freedom of speech. What do you think?


http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,19758753-5001022,00.html
Hate books banned
By Kelvin Bissett
July 12, 2006

BOOKS of hate found openly on sale in Sydney's Muslim community have been banned after an official finding that they promote suicide operations and violence.

The Classification Review Board found the books Defence of the Muslim Lands and Join the Caravan were so threatening it should be an offence to import them.

The Daily Telegraph
revealed the books and other inflammatory material were in Sydney bookshops last July, triggering an outcry over the availability of such inflammatory material in the wake of the London bombings.

The books slapped with a refused classification ruling were found on sale at The Islamic Bookstore at Lakemba during an investigation by The Daily Telegraph that involved an Arabic interpreter.

The Review Board found Defence of the Muslim Lands was "specific and explicit in support for and encouragement of suicide bombing, including details for undertaking such crimes".

The book, originally written to rally support for mujahideen in Bosnia but since republished, carries an explicit endorsement by terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden on its back cover.
The board was also scathing about Join the Caravan, which it described as a "real and genuine call" to specific action to fight for Allah and engage in acts of violence.

"Join the Caravan warrants refused classification because it has the objective purpose of promoting and inciting acts of terrorism against 'disbelievers'. . ." the board noted
Six other books reviewed by the board can continue to be sold.

Among them, The Criminal West, written by an Australian-based Muslim, contains claims Australian police routinely rape girls and authorities conspire to turn Muslim youths into drug addicts.

The board found the book did not promote, condone or incite crime or violence.

"Whilst some may consider that badly-written books containing unsubstantiated and outlandish conspiracy theories should be banned for reasons of good taste, it is a fundamental principle of the National Classification Code that adult Australians should be able to read, hear and see what they want," the board concluded.

Board convenor Maureen Shelley said the opinions of a number of organisations were sought before the rulings, including Mufti Sheik Taj el-Dene Elhilaly and the NSW Council for Civil Liberties.

Muslim Friendship Association spokesman Keysar Trad said the bookstore involved had voluntarily chosen not to continue selling the books.

He said he believe the board's ruling was influenced by "sensationalism".

"It would have been far better to leave the matter with the understanding that these books would not be marketed in Australia rather than to be on the record as censoring them," Mr Trad said.

Mr Trad said he believed the books did not pose any immediate danger and said inflammatory comments made by radio personalities were more of a concern.

The board ruling followed the AFP visiting the The Daily Telegraph's office to seize the books for their own inquiries.​
 
Vin, I don't know the Aussie laws so I find it hard for say if your nation has 'gone too far' but here in the US we allow hate filled books of all sorts.

What we do is often remove books on a 'local level' at the public libraries, or from the local school systems, but the same books are for sale in the same communities at any privately owned bookstore.

In the US, the public library system is often just supported by one community, or perhaps a few communities that have banded together. The town I live near has a population of under 8000, but has a private library supported solely by donations and our town. Many other libraries in our county are part of a cooperative that covers about 1/2 our county. In each system the community can choose to ban a book. Schools are the same way. Local school systems have a large amount of autonomy to include or exclude materials.


However, on a national level, our freedom of speech, even the preaching of hatred, is protected to a very high degree. Now all that said, I think there is room for "right" and "wrong" and I believe that there is some level of absolute evil that deserves to be stopped.


Take a look at this, I cannot see that this should be allowed. Yet it was allowed in England.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp
 
Would you be so shocked about a book that supported rounding up Muslims and killing them or forcibly converting them to Christianity (if that's even possible)?
 
daedong said:
Have we gone too far?
NO... Of course not. How can you ever use too much common sense?
daedong said:
Are we paranoid?
Perhaps... But even if you are, that doesn't mean the terrorists are not out to kill you.
daedong said:
Are we undermining on our freedom of speech?
NO... It's an Australian freedom to do with as Aussies please. It's NOT the terrorists' freedom in any way, shape or form.
 
protest1.jpg


Yup this is a little different than banning books, but it is, in my mind absolutely wrong.

Now I am one of many who will defend Muslims rights here in the US, but I draw the line at the suggestion that people should be murdered. If someone wants to hate me, that is OK. But to take it to the next step and publicly advocate that killing should occur, that is where I think the line is clearly crossed.

protest2.jpg
 
daedong said:
Bob, thanks for that, I am not sure it would have happened here without arrests!
That’s blunt public Incitement. I would and I hope my country would never tolerate that level incitement. But books for private sale I see a little different.

Wait a minute...is that not the same as rounding up Muslims? Isn't that intolerance of our peaceful Muslim neighbors?

Why would it be OK to arrest these people in Austrailia, but not in the United States?

Would it also be OK to keep a database of who purchased the books?
 
B_Skurka said:
protest1.jpg


Yup this is a little different than banning books, but it is, in my mind absolutely wrong.

Now I am one of many who will defend Muslims rights here in the US, but I draw the line at the suggestion that people should be murdered. If someone wants to hate me, that is OK. But to take it to the next step and publicly advocate that killing should occur, that is where I think the line is clearly crossed.

protest2.jpg

Isn't this simply these peaceful muslims way of excercising their free speech? Note the lack of a counter protest by those nice Muslims you defend.
 
Cityboy said:
Wait a minute...is that not the same as rounding up Muslims? Isn't that intolerance of our peaceful Muslim neighbors?
To be arrested i beleive you have to break the law, I think you will find that Incitement is ilegal, so only those that participate in incitement should be arrested.
Cityboy said:
Why would it be OK to arrest these people in Austrailia, but not in the United States?
You tell me :confused:

Cityboy said:
Would it also be OK to keep a database of who purchased the books?
I think that would be up to ASIO or in your case Homeland sercurity if they thought it was a a genuine risk to national sercurity. I am sure there is plenty of stuff on the net that is readily available, don't personally see the difference between books and the net.

edited lots of stuff ups
 
Cityboy said:
Why would it be OK to arrest these people in Austrailia, but not in the United States?
I don't know the Aussie legal system but it might be well within their laws to arrest these people. However in the US, we have to follow our own laws. And if the laws are different then we'd obviously follow different laws!

I believe Vin made an excellent point about inciting violence. That is critical. I can say something and it can be protected by our Freedom of Speech laws. But if I incite violence then I am clearly in violation of laws and the Freedom of Speech rights do not protect me.
 
Vin & Bob,

Here is the point of my last two posts:

What about a religion that preaches the same thing in its mosques day in and day out? Is that not also incitement cloaked in the disguise of religious freedom?

Islam is not a peaceful religion, and it could be argued that is not even a religion at all; but actually a form of government, ergo - Islamic law. The free world openly opposes opressive totalitarian governments. What about opressive, totalitarian , intolerant "religions"? Why do we tolerate this Islamic government "religion" at all?
 
CB, if a Muslim cleric is preaching that Muslims should go out and behead people who don't believe in Islam, then yes, I believe they are inciting violence. I don't care if it is done inside a mosque or out on a street corner. It is the same thing. However the Muslims I know tell me that the clerics at their mosques do not preach that hatred.
 
B_Skurka said:
However the Muslims I know tell me that the clerics at their mosques do not preach that hatred.

Of course they do. Do you think they would actually admit it? Do you actually believe them? The passages of the Koran that call for the murder of you and me have been posted here on FF. Why don't you attend these mosques unannounced on a few occaisions and see what gets preached? Even then, I doubt the service will be in English, so unless you speak Arabic, you will be no wiser than you were before. Even if you do speak Arabic, deception of infiedels such as yourself is condoned and encouraged. "Infidel" defenders of Islam - (defending those who would kill you, or stand by and do nothing as you and your family are murdered) - never cease to amaze me.
 
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