Muskeg summer repairs

[pixie]

I like having a summer project. It means I have an excuse to stay in the cool garage on those hot days. I wasn't really planning on putting new track rubber on ... that's OK...them's the breaks. It will be great having less scary tracks.

I got the hydraulic winch that I used on my Imp mounted to the Muskeg but the little power steering pump didn't have enough power to run it so it was upgrade time. I did some math and then guessed a lot about which pump to buy. And ordered some regulating valves and new pulley. Still need to get a tank and have some leads on used ones.

Benz9 has gone thru a lot getting his tracks apart so I feel bad saying that it took me 8-9 hours to strip my track.
Check the writing on the rubber in one of the pictures.

 

[pixie]

Grousers got painted. Needed to scrape them anyway...
420 bolts and cheapo Canadian Tire impact wrench

 

[benz9]

Pixie,
thanks for the pics, looks like fun! You're right, it's been over 40 hours for me and I'm at 75% complete for the track tear down. I have one completely rebuilt and the other on it's way. With the parts from Marcel Houle, I'll be able to rebuild with no weak or missing parts.
You know, Canadian Tire has some pretty good tools. That impact I'm sure has already paid for itself. I bought the DeWalt electric impact and can't complain so far. I bought it before the company I work for bought Black & Decker last winter. Looks like now, I'll have some good rebates on professional tools. Is that from one of your trips to the maple leaf country or do they have CT in your neck of the woods?
I got tired of drilling each bolt that wouldn't come out with the impact and found, at Canadian Tire I might add, a nut extractor kit. I had my doubts about it but had to try it to see if it would go faster than drilling twice and then punching. Well, to my surprise, combined with a ballpeen hammer and an electric impact, these jewels get 90% of those stripped and rusted nuts out. I cut my track in sections of 6 grousers for easier manipulation, so out of 24 bolts, I usually only have to drill 3 now. I'll take a pic and show y'all today.

 

[benz9]

Did your bolts say Bombardier also? Most of mine did. Also looks like whoever put that track together can't read english...hahaha

 

[Lia]

Grousers got painted. Needed to scrape them anyway...
420 bolts and cheapo Canadian Tire impact wrench

The second pic of the first post? A beautiful piece if machinery!! Don't even ask me why I think it's gorgeous, 'cos I don't know myself...

But, 420 bolts? er... is this thing put together like a mechano set? lol.

Just wondering...

 

[pixie]

Thanks, Lia. I think it's really neat, too. It takes lots of bolts to hold the tracks together !

Yes, Benz, all the bolts were fine thread Bombardier. I'm a little surprized that fine thread carriage bolts aren't more available.
Canadian tire is still only in Canada but I've visited several of their stores and know Princess Auto pretty well, too. I love those places and wish we had them here.

 

[MNoutdoors RIP]

Northern States Supply is where we buy most of our fasenters......we may get a price break because we are OEM. not sure, they have been the cheapest for us. and good quality also

 

[pixie]

My bolts from Northern States ( coarse thread ) arrived the other day and my track belts from Boggie came yesterday. Thanks, Brad !
Now, I just need to straighten my backing plates and finish my hydraulic project and then I'll build the track.

More pictures soon.

 

[pixie]

The backer plates for the track are misshapen. First pic

I bought a 20 ton hydraulic press ( a real cheap one ! ) and made a pair of plates to press the backers back to straight.
In the second picture, the backers are on edge on the left. One of those has been straightened.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

Pixie what do you do with these bombies do you just use them for winter access or are they used comercialy

 

[benz9]

As promised, here is a pic of the nut extractors from Canadian Tire. So far, I've had a 90% success rate with them (9 out of 10 nuts) but a ball peen hammer, a large punch, and an impact gun are also required. Total cost with plastic case, 42$ Canadian, hey!

 

[pixie]

I've never tried those, Benz. Glad to hear they work. I did try a nut breaker and broke it on the first nut

Don, I have some forested land that I'm trying to improve by thinning and weeding. I get firewood and a few softwood logs to slice up on my sawmill but lots of it is less than 4" diameter and not worth messing with.

 

[the old trucker]

As promised, here is a pic of the nut extractors from Canadian Tire. So far, I've had a 90% success rate with them (9 out of 10 nuts) but a ball peen hammer, a large punch, and an impact gun are also required. Total cost with plastic case, 42$ Canadian, hey!

Benz would you have the CTC part # ?? For some reason they don't know what I'm talking about here on the Island.

The Old Trucker

 

[benz9]

Old Trucker -->http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/Sockets/SocketSets/PRD~0589136P/Mastercraft%252BExtract-It%252B5-pc%252BAdd-On%252BSet.jsp?locale=en
And if that don't work, part # for the first kit is
58-9136-8

The other kit has the blue plastic box and 5 other sockets:
58-9132-6

Hope this helps. They are no longer on special, so prices are a little higher than mentionned...

Did another 12 grousers tonite (48 bolts) with 100% success. I love these things.

Pixie --> great pic of the trailer.

Boggie is back!

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

sears makes the same thing i bet the craftsman name cost's a a little more but that gives you an alternitive.

 

[the old trucker]

Thanks Benz... I called the store & they have both in stock.

Old Trucker -->http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/Sockets/SocketSets/PRD~0589136P/Mastercraft%252BExtract-It%252B5-pc%252BAdd-On%252BSet.jsp?locale=en
And if that don't work, part # for the first kit is
58-9136-8
The other kit has the blue plastic box and 5 other sockets:
58-9132-6
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
58-9136-8 $ 27.99 5 PC. add on kit

58-9132-6 $ 29.99 5 PC. Extract-it kit

Lifetime warranty ..... Can't lose !!!

I will pick them up today. Never know when you need them.

 

[Lyndon]

Track rebuild is a formidable undertaking. My "hat's off" to both of you.
I've done about 7 sets of tracks and recomend the following:
1) do it standing on it's edge like in Pixie's pictures. allows one to access both sides.
2) get the smallest, lightest Air Impact wrench available. this prevents muscle fatigue. for removal I like the electric for the cranky one's, but for re-assembly a small butterfly air wrench is alot easier on the arms and back.
3)Use "NYLOCKS" instead of normal nuts and lockwashers.
4) Hook up with a fastener specialty supplier. I got entire sets of 1500 pieces, all in Stainless for just over 100$, and they sell by the pound, not by the piece.
5)DON't Use a Torche, it'll ruin the grousers & guides.
6) Stick to 6 point sockets which won't round off the nuts.
7) For one's that just won't come off: use a small 1/8 inch drill, drill a hole in the nut(face), then using a large flat chisle, holding the chisle with vice grips or giant Channelocks, one blow with a small sledge usally breaks them off.

 

[benz9]

Lyndon, thank you for the tips. It is an laborious task, one that I get easily discouraged with. I think I have the smallest track of most snow machines talked about in this forum (4.5" wide rubber bands with 56 grousers) and it's still giving me problems. I agree with most of what you said in your post except for #7. If you checked out my thread, you'll notice that my grousers are rubber filled and therefore, in most cases, I cannot access the nut to do the magic trick you speak of.
For all you SW-48 owners out there (I don't know of any other rubber filled grouser models) here is what I did to get those one's that just won't come off. First, if you're doing this, it's probably for the same reasons as me an d Pixie, your track scares you meaning, it's finished. I cut mine in sections of 6 grousers so they would be easy to manipulate. Secondly, if the head is accessible, grind it off, so far that's the easiest way. Secondly, if the head isn't accessible, turn the track over, center punch the bolt (not the nut, you can't when it's at the bottom of a 1" hole) and drill it until it's past the nut with a small drill. I've managed to get this part done on a drill press using a plywood as support. Next, (in my case, I had 3/8" bolts) drill the hold you just made with a 3/8" drill bit and in most cases, the nut stays on your bit when you get to the grouser. I used a 3/8" punch to finish the job.
Thanks again for sharing, that's what makes this place great!

 

[pixie]

Here's some pics of the track project.

The holes are sized pretty tight wich is good. I made a jig to bang the backers and bolts onto the track.

 

[pixie]

Here's a picture of the 'suspension' for Benz.
And a picture of the new hydraulic pump installed. I had to make a new bracket and I'm waiting for a tank. Still have a bunch of plumbing to do.

 

[benz9]

Wow Pixie, you sure have been busy. I like your jig, I think I'll do something similar for my second track. Are you doing the other one this summer too? Question on the suspension, is the walking beam shaft bolted to both the hull and the guard (looks that way but hard to tell) and is it the same setup for the front wheels or is it two swivels like the J5/SW? Very nice pump but as I recall on a couple of show on TV and in this forum, shouldn't the pump be direct drive and not belt driven? I guess it all depends on what you want to push/pull with hydraulics. (can you tell, I'm picking your brain...)

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

the hydraulics can be belt drive and work well on an aplication where you want to turn the pumop o and off by using an electro magnetic clutch the down side is that it will pull the crank to one side and cause un even were on he main bearings in my opinion not a big concern on an automotive gas motor as they never see 1 million miles of usage anyways secondly if the belt gets wet it can slip in the shivs direct drive from a pto works better for a large load like a winch or a fire pump but the pto is shut off when the clutch is released direct drive off the crank shaft works good for aplications where the pump is pumping large loads all the time like cement mixers and sand spreaders and you use a dry valve to turn pressure on and off i hope that helps out for a snow plow or small boom she has made the right choice .

 

[pixie]

The center of the front and rear walking beams are attached to both the hull and the outside guard/carrier. The front walking beam has fixed wheel axles. I've seen some Muskegs with a spring can or chain between the two walking beams but that doesn't seem nessasary.

My other track has 2 fairly new belts and one older one so I'm going to wait to do that one.
I'm glad I'm doing this track and get to check the wheel bearings. One of the rear wheels had a broken washer and wasn't turning freely. I'll be checking them all but the bearings and races look good so far. One seal was slightly damaged but still functional.

It was just too much trouble to mount the hydraulic pump as a direct drive. This winch is designed to be driven by the power steering pump in any pickup truck and it worked fine with the small belt driven pump on my Imp. Some day I'd like to build a blade for this machine but it won't be this year.
A side note.... my J5 has both a direct drive hydraulic pump for the plow and a PTO for the winch. Some one went to all the trouble of putting a 230 motor which is just like the 251 but 2 inches shorter, into the machine so there would be room at the back ( front of the motor, back of the machine) for the hyd. pump. They still had to move the whole engine forward so the driveshaft is an inch or so shorter. There's much more room in the Muskeg but it would have left the pump in an exposed location and made it even harder to run the hoses.

The track is all assembled but I still need to tighten all the bolts and get some wheels back on and some wheels off for painting. I had a lot of stuff building up in the tracks and I'm kind of hoping that shiny paint will make it easier to get the stuff out of there at the end of the day. I don't want the mix of snow, ice, mud and sticks to freeze in there in the winter.

 

[benz9]

Thank you both, that was great! Just like going back to school.
I have an off topic question for anybody with good hydraulics knowledge. I was plowing last winter for about 1/2h when I felt a burning sensation on my right knee. It was the control for the blade that has gotten very hot. My pump is directly on the crankshaft with one inch hoses back and forth. Is this normal that it gets that hot? Should I consider a small radiator for the hydraulic oil? The only real use is up/down and left/right for the blade. I don't really use the winch (yet).

 

[125a]

Benz,
If the spool is slightly offset in the bore, with regard to the detents and the ports, the fluid temperature will increase rather dramatically, especially with a small reservoir.
I had this problem with an old tractor, where the lock nut securing the centering spring had backed off.

Or, your pump could be on its way out...

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

could also have to do with the pressure regulator on the pump the regulator should be internal with a spring like an oil pump if there is an inline pressure regulator fluid will get hot just the same as na a/c system works i would bet on the control valve input should be hot and if its leaking by than the work side should be cooler to the touch

 

[e2spear]

My guess would be the valve not shifting all the way, to be the first thing checked.

 

[pixie]

I haven't abandoned this but things were moving slow.
Waited 3 weeks for my hydraulic tank but they made it inside out: every fitting was reversed. It was my fault for a bad drawing. So I had to pay another welder to move 2 fittings.
I couldn't decide if I wanted to replace all the bearings and races or not. Finally decided I would.
I had 3 wheel seals. Ordered and payed for 16 and they sent me ONE. Another week gone......

Finally......

 

[e2spear]

If that red suction hose is just air / water hose you might want to think about changing it out. The oil will saturate it and be junk before you know it.

 

[benz9]

Pixie - New track is looking hot! Is that the side you want to replace bearings too? How easy is it to remove a wheel once the track is back on? Don't give up, it looks great!

e2spear - What hose? If you're referring to mine, it's in the works, if not, oops!