Muskeg axel/driver shaft brakes...Good Idea???

[muskeg1]

I am fabricating disk brakes with calipers from Toyota vans onto the driver/axel shafts. They will be powered by a couple of tercell master cylinders mounted to the stock steering wands. I know they will be more exposed than the diff steering bands but I dont intend on doing alot of mud slumming and they have got to work better.

Has anyone tried this or have any advise?

The system is nearly ready to go but i am trying to decide whether to re-tube or foam fill my tires while I have everything apart.

Any suggestions???

 

[snowbird]

Boggie (a forum member) is way more experienced with steering on a muskeg (I assume that's a Bombardier) than I. It's not clear to me where you plan to mount the disc brakes.
I'd sure vote for filling at least the front tires with foam to prevent flats. I think the other tires could go flat and not strand you out in the boondocks.

 

[muskeg1]

Sorry for the lack of info. I have an early Bombardier Muskeg. I have rear mounted a Toyota 3B diesel with a GM th350 auto tranny and the origional NP435 4 spd. We (my high school shop classes and myself) chopped a 67 Dodge van down for the body.

It has front solid drivers and rear solid track tensioner bogies. I am putting the disk brakes on the front axel/driver shaft between the outer driver and the outer shaft bearing housing on the frame rail.

I am looking at the remaining 12 sometimes air filled 4.50 X 16 tires to see if a rim cleanup and knew tubes might hold air or maybe I am going to have too foam fill them.

Has anyone foam filled their own tires or is this an expensive send away and pay process??

Thanks for any advice.

 

[pixie]

Why do you feel you need these brakes ?? Do the steering/brake bands in the differential not work ??

My 1972 Muskeg has a parking brake on the drive shaft that's a disc brake.

 

[muskeg1]

I adjusted the bands once when inspecting the diff. I noticed that I have power assist hydraulic cylinders in the steering linkage between the wands and diff but no power assist wands or pump as per muskeg carrier options bulletin found on safetyone website. I have very poor steering when climbing or under load and I realize that skid steer is not perfect but I got tired of yarding on the steering wands and wanted to try something different. I understand that stopping one track climbing in snow will likely cause the other track to break away and spin but the disc brakes should give me much more responsive steering in many conditions like low speed, side hill or climbing.

I have allready installed a subaru disk brake on the output of the NP435 in place of the origional band parking brake. It is an excellent foot brake for stopping and parking brake in one.

 

[pixie]

My Muskeg has the hydraulic steering and it's great
If it were me, I'd scrounge up a used power steering pump and mount it where the fan belt could power it and make something to control the cylinders.

The disc brake set up is going to rob even more power than is used up by the original steering system and possibly damage the axle shaft. You do not want to "stop" one track. I don't think it's possible. When you pull on one steering lever, that side should slow to a third of the speed of the other side.

 

[muskeg1]

Band breaks are not nearly as effective as disk breaks especially when covered in oil. It also does not make sence to me to have brake particals floating around in the diff oil bath. I have been worried that the knew braking system is downstream of the final drive etc. and so it will take more braking force to do the same work. That force is going to put additional stress on the drive train between the origional bands and the axel shaft.

I do admitt that the differential was mind numbing to look at for the first time but if it acts like a normal open differential, will completly stop on one side transferring all the torque and twice the rotational speed to the other track.

I am to far gone in this experiment not to try it but I do like the idea of finding some of the origional power steering wands and spool valves/controller for the power steering cylinders I allready have. I understand that if the origional system can be more effective than mine that its placement is far safer and less exposed to all the crazy stuff that goes on inside the track wells. I guess time will tell...

 

[muskeg1]

I think I have decided, based on the poor condition of my tires and the absence of any "cons" I cant live with, to fill my tires.

I read Bogies responce in a thread about the pros and cons of foam filling tires including instructions on the filling procedure.

I am interested to know a few details aboput the procedure I would like to understand better.

I understood inflate the tubed tire to operating pressure. then placing the valve down at 6 ocklock and inserting a needle through tire and tube at 12 oclock (for the purpoe of expelling the air during foam filling), fill the tire via the valve stem with the foaming agent (with the tire allready under pressure??) untill foam leaves the needle ( letting us know that the tire is completely full) and then plugging the needle hole with a nail and finally reinflate or pressurize the tire to operating pressure (with air or foam???) and lastly place the tire on its side so that any air pockets are foam solidified on the side walls instead of the tires running surface.

I know there were a whole bunch of questions embedded in that mess but could you please clarify for me. I am picturing two possibilities. One is a high pressure filling system and the other is filling and then pressurizing the filled tire with air pressure.

Could you suggest an inexpensive product that I might be able to source in northern BC Canada.
If not, could you suggest whatever product you would normally reccomend.

Thank You very much for your assistance

Marty Strachan (Muskeg1)
metalwork and automotive teacher in Hazelton BC

 

[aulen2002]

but if it acts like a normal open differential, ...

It does not

You do not want to "stop" one track. I don't think it's possible. When you pull on one steering lever, that side should slow to a third of the speed of the other side.

I'm no expert, but the friction of the brake bands is what causes the internal workings of the diff to turn the axles at a 3:1 ratio. Wouldn't placing brakes on the axles be like doing so on a welded/locked diff, with the axles turning the same speed? I don't think it would let the diff work.

Anyone know for sure?