Market driven fuel prices....do you buy it?

[Glink]

With the once again rising price of fuel, I would offer the question; How truly market driven is the pricing of motor vehicle fuel?

 

[ddrane2115]

Someone with power needs to start a week long, US vacation where we all take a week off, dont drive, dont use fuel, dont buy fuel, and basically dont leave the area further than we could walk.

Let them drown in the gas and see what happens to the fuel cost..........can we say under 1$ a gallon.

This of course will not happen, but nice dream

 

[DaveNay]

Someone with power needs to start a week long, US vacation where we all take a week off, dont drive, dont use fuel, dont buy fuel, and basically dont leave the area further than we could walk.

Let them drown in the gas and see what happens to the fuel cost..........can we say under 1$ a gallon.

This of course will not happen, but nice dream

Unfortunately, all this will do is cause grief to the independant and franchisee owners of gas stations. All of the major oil companies had record, or near record profits in the last few years, and they could easily absorb the effect of nobody driving for a week. Hell, they'd probably just add another $.25 to the price on Monday when everyone returned to driving.

Actually, I believe that most gas/quick-stop stores make the majority of there profit by selling Bob Skurka's goods. So if you don't show up for gas, you don't buy the coffee and package of Pop-Tarts either.

 

[beds]

We produce alot of oil from the Alberta tar sands. It's expensive to produce, and can only be produced when oil is at the ridiculous price of, oh, $35 a barrel! I have learned here that there is a huge domestic North American oil production and believe that the high price of oil does not really harm us. Our province of Alberta, who benefits directly from oil production taxes, has no sales tax and the lowest provincial tax rate in our country.

I would guess that if someone were able to control the price of oil by purchasing huge, stockpiling quantities of it, then domestic oil companies would be pleased.

 

[Melensdad]

Actually, I believe that most gas/quick-stop stores make the majority of there profit by selling Bob Skurka's goods. So if you don't show up for gas, you don't buy the coffee and package of Pop-Tarts either.

While it varies by region, the #1 profit center for a local gas-mart is BEER. #2 is CIGARETTES. In states that don't allow sales of beer in gas-marts, the #1 is CIGARETTES, and they can amount to 35% of the total profit that a store makes!

After BEER and CIGARETTES, things like hot coffee, soda, foodservice, diary, candy, etc come into play in decending order (again varying to some degree by region). A typical gas station owner makes between 1 and 5 cents a gallon on regular gas. More on premium blends.

Several gas station chains have publicly stated goals that they hope to make $0.00 per gallon of regular gas, but none have yet achieved that as an annual average (at least none that I know of).

 

[mtntopper]

The oil companies know that fuel usage will go up for the next six months and in anticipation for higher usage we also get higher prices. Higher prices at the pump is just another sign that spring is here and summer travel season is next. To answer your question,

How truly market driven is the pricing of motor vehicle fuel?

the prices will go up because the oil companies and producers of oil know we have to have fuel to maintain the economy and lifestyle of the citizens of our country. Who is going to be the first to park one of their 3 or 4 cars to make a statement. Probably not me, any volunteers?

The day of cheap fuel prices is now history!!!! We are just catching up to the rest of the real world.

 

[BigAl]

I'll go first !!! I won't drive my Kristi snow cat all summer ! That will teach them ! And I refuse to use my snowblower too !

 

[Glink]

The oil companies know that fuel usage will go up for the next six months and in anticipation for higher usage we also get higher prices. Higher prices at the pump is just another sign that spring is here and summer travel season is next.

That there are market driven forces on the demand side is painfully evident. We compete for the available fuel with our purchasing dollars. How about on the other side of that pump handle? Do you think there is a free market system operating on the supply side?

And if you think it will help I will idle my lawnmower.

 

[ddrane2115]

If I did not have a dental appointment today, my van would sit idel till Monday, and my truck would sit idle all weekend. Dont have plans to go anywhere or see anyone, or do anything outside working at the house. The 20 gallons this saves me buying, some oil rich b$%^#$!^ can drink it and die! Personally I think Alaska needs to fuel our needs and let it be at that...................or take Iraq and Iran by force, take the oil from them, and annex the country into the US.......................that will teach them!

 

[ddrane2115]

Unfortunately, all this will do is cause grief to the independant and franchisee owners of gas stations. All of the major oil companies had record, or near record profits in the last few years, and they could easily absorb the effect of nobody driving for a week. Hell, they'd probably just add another $.25 to the price on Monday when everyone returned to driving.

Actually, I believe that most gas/quick-stop stores make the majority of there profit by selling Bob Skurka's goods. So if you don't show up for gas, you don't buy the coffee and package of Pop-Tarts either.

The bigger they are the harder they fall. Those big boys up there in the oil towers need a daily influx of cash, cut that off and you might as well cut off their oxygen. IF we did this, NO ONE is going to go to use gas, I did not say stop buying. Take a ride on a bike, walk, horseback, electric car or golf cart,

 

[waybomb]

A typical gas station owner makes between 1 and 5 cents a gallon on regular gas. More on premium blends.

Several gas station chains have publicly stated goals that they hope to make $0.00 per gallon of regular gas, but none have yet achieved that as an annual average (at least none that I know of).

Don't know where you are, but here in Liberal Wisconsin, all gas stations MUST charge a mark-up of something like 6 to 9%. Minimum. Or they get fined.

I notice that Wisconsin prices are about the same as Michigan, as I live in both states (no, not consecutively). When travelling between both, I stop in Indiana for gas, where it is about 15 cents a gallon cheaper.

So, Premium here in good old WI is at about $2.85. Same in Michigan. That means that at least in WI, the gas station is making somewhere around 26 cents per gallon. I would venture to say taxes are about the same in Mi and WI, so the mark-up is about 26 cents per gallon there as well. I will then say that the station in Indiana is making between 11 and 26 cents per gallon as well, though I believe it is more toward the bottom of the scale because there exit where this station is has competition and has the lowest gas prices of all the exits on 80/94 between IL and MI.

 

[waybomb]

Oh, one more thing - any idea how much fuel 3 750 hp 572ci engines burn at WOT?

 

[thcri]

Don't know where you are, but here in Liberal Wisconsin, all gas stations MUST charge a mark-up of something like 6 to 9%. Minimum. Or they get fined.

That means that at least in WI, the gas station is making somewhere around 26 cents per gallon.

I am not so sure I agree with your statement.

I work for a very large convienience store chain in Wisconsin. Over two years ago they shifted gears and started remodeling and building new stores based on food sales. They are took all their existing stores, remodeled them to handle new food items, and added new refrigeration systems. Many stores they are adding kitchens etc. Living close to the border Wisconsin is a bit higher than Minnesota but it pretty much boils down to the tax difference. Based on all conversations with the upper management they don't make any where near .26 cents a gallon. I tend to agree more with Bob's statement

murph

 

[OkeeDon]

Don't know where you are, but here in Liberal Wisconsin, all gas stations MUST charge a mark-up of something like 6 to 9%.

I'm trying very hard to figure out what the word "Liberal" has to do with your statement. Generally, conservative policies favor business, corporations and profit at the expense of middle or lower income people, while liberal policies favor ordinary people, the poorer the better.

Using that as a rule of thumb, if Wisconsin is applying their "liberal" tendencies to gas prices, the prices would be fixed at some artificially low price where the poor can afford the gas and businesses go broke. As an example, consider rent control.

So, the only conclusion I can come to is that you are frustrated by a policy, and you are a conservative who is blind to the fact that your own "side" is the one screwing you, so you automatically blame it on "liberals" even if that doesn't make any sense.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone with less than about $2 Million per year income supports the "conservative" party. All they do is screw the middle class, then lie to them about how much "good" they're doing.

 

[waybomb]

Madison Wisconsin is as Liberal as liberal gets.

As for the mark-up law, look it up. I don't know whther Dems or Reps enacted the law, but my understanding is it was enacted many years ago to protect the mom-n-pop gas stations. Believe it or not, it is on the books and enforced.

I am not saying food sales is not profitable; all I am saying you are fooling yourself if you think gross mark-up on fuel is only a penny or two. It is illegal in Wisconsin to do so.

 

[thcri]

Madison Wisconsin is as Liberal as liberal gets.

As for the mark-up law, look it up. I don't know whther Dems or Reps enacted the law, but my understanding is it was enacted many years ago to protect the mom-n-pop gas stations. Believe it or not, it is on the books and enforced.

I am not saying food sales is not profitable; all I am saying you are fooling yourself if you think gross mark-up on fuel is only a penny or two. It is illegal in Wisconsin to do so.

The organization I work with has changed their emphasis to food rather than gas. Gross profits/markups are way different than net. Minnesota also has the ruling to protect the mom and pops but there is always ways around it to out sell the others. Net profit they don't make didley.


murph

 

[Dargo]

I'm trying very hard to figure out what the word "Liberal" has to do with your statement.

My favorite subjects, politics, gas prices and taxes. Actually it's not, but it seems to be dragged into most every topic as much as does race and religion. This only brings me to my question of what Don's opinion of property tax is. Don? This is not a loaded or trick question. However, I will tell you that it is the tax that I dislike the most and I feel is the tax that hits the middle class and poor the most.

While many people will say that gas tax, beer tax, or cigarette taxes hit the middle class and poor the hardest, I say BS! I really don't think that our middle class and poor are really that stupid. Although they will squeak loudly about 'sin' taxes, I'll challenge you that those taxes do not hurt our middle class or poor as much as property taxes do. The only other tax that would come close would be tax on fuel.

Let me explain. If things get really tough, I (figuratively speaking) can give up beer and cigarettes. I won't want to, but I can. Taxes on fuel begin to get into that area where I have no choice. In many parts of the U.S., you must have a vehicle to be able to be gainfully employed and to keep your family safe. Property taxes rip apart the very fabric from which our country is founded; private land ownership. Isn't that the American dream, owning your own property and your own home? As long as we have property tax, our entire concept of the American dream is nothing but a pipe dream, a farce, a canard, a fallacy, a flat out lie!

If the economy takes a down turn and I cannot make my property taxes, what happens? Whether my house is completely paid off at the bank or not, it is reposessed! The sad truth is that with a property tax, I cannot ever pay off my property and honestly own it! I cannot get around this unfair tax no matter what I do. I lose my little piece of the American dream.

Even with a flat sales tax, I can regulate what I purchase. We see countries using this system and the black market is alive and well there. We have seen how effective prohibition was. This most recent huge percentage jump in the price of gasoline (please, save me the speach about the cost of our gas being some of the lowest in the free world. I've looked into that ad nauseum. Now I can't afford to put $250 in the tank of my Ford Excursion I just got last week at the auction for a real bargain. I tried to run it across the blocks this week and it looks like I've lost $15k in the last week with that lovely V10 gas engine. I have to have a car to get to work, what do I do?! I can make my house paymant, but with these new additions for the rate increase makes it seem like I'm going further in debt each month rather than getting anything paid down.

Now, as a middle / low class America wanting to live the American Dream, I have some real issues. No matter how hard I try, it looks like my house is going back! This lovely gas price increase has just killed the American Dream for me! The "evil" Republicans" have been painted into a coner as a group of people who have no care for me and want to screw me! The Liberal Democrats are pointing fingers across the isle at the evil Republicans looking for an answer.

I just bought a new SUV yesterday, but I'll never see itl I need to write it off. Help here! You have all the answers. I jsut have a headache.

 

[Glink]

Generally, conservative policies favor business, corporations and profit at the expense of middle or lower income people, while liberal policies favor ordinary people, the poorer the better.

No I dont think I buy that. Republican policies favor coroporatations. True conservative policies favor no one. Conservative philosophy places faith in the value, rights and responsibilities of the individual. Conservatives want minimal governmant a free market and a level playing field. Liberals favor big government, not ordinary people. They do pander to selected groups of people with various methods of wealth redistribution; taxes, welfare, social services ,etc to use as vote buying sceams to stay in power. Basically punishing the successfull "the makers" ; and giving to those that are the victims of their own poor decision making processes the "takers".


Using that as a rule of thumb, if Wisconsin is applying their "liberal" tendencies to gas prices, the prices would be fixed at some artificially low price where the poor can afford the gas and businesses go broke. As an example, consider rent control.

I think fiscal and social, conservatism or liberalism, is being confused here. Wisonsin is very socially liberal. Neither major political party is fiscally conservative. The democrats want to tax and spend, the republicans want to borrow and spend. Neither can seem to grasp the simple concept of not spending what you dont have. Nor would either truly push to have the price of gas reduced. The democrats want the taxes, the republicans
count on contributions from the oil companies for campaign finance.



So, the only conclusion I can come to is that you are frustrated by a policy, and you are a conservative who is blind to the fact that your own "side" is the one screwing you, so you automatically blame it on "liberals" even if that doesn't make any sense.



For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone with less than about $2 Million per year income supports the "conservative" party. All they do is screw the middle class, then lie to them about how much "good" they're doing.[/quote]

Because the republicans are as close to a conservative choice that is available, that has a shot in hell of winning. And ultimately the choice comes down to who, in any individual's opinion, is going to "screw'' me the least. Given that as of right now, not getting screwed, is not on the ballot.

Absolutely no offense intended; just my take.
Greg

 

[Melensdad]

Generally, conservative policies favor business, corporations and profit at the expense of middle or lower income people, while liberal policies favor ordinary people, the poorer the better.

Honestly I do not buy this description as even close to valid.

To suggest that a conservative "favors" anything "at the expense of" anyone is simply inaccurate. No question that "generally" conservatives favor an open market over a highly regulated one, and no question that an open/free market does cause prices to be in a constant state of flux, but to suggest that it is "at the expense of" any group of people shows a tremendous amount of bias.

To suggest that a "liberal" favors a group of people may be accurate.

However the illogical nature of "favoring" selected groups of people over others is in itself biased and that causes hardship on other groups. Further, following the logic, it only leads to equal ownership of all goods (remember Lenin/Marx/Castro/Mao?) and equal burden. Which has not proven to be workable, and has in practice only destroyed nations, led to vast corruption and undeniable black markets that are in fact, shadow free markets.

 

[thcri]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone with less than about $2 Million per year income supports the "conservative" party. All they do is screw the middle class, then lie to them about how much "good" they're doing.

Don,

I can not believe you made that comment