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J5 engine ID and other Questions

O

OldGreenJ5

New member
Hi everyone. I just bought a old j5 and am in the process of getting it running (hasn't run in about 10 years). I was just wondering what engine is in it also what year could it be? It has a light gauge body that was originally red, has air filled tires, has a two speed trans (or so I was told by previous owner), it did not originally have a roll cage, the cockpit has sides unlike most j5's I've seen, and there is what seems to be hinges welded on above the dash as if there was once a windshield. I know the engine is a Chrysler but what size? the number on the side is T317-4317C and it was painted silver also it has A233 in raised letters on the head. Also if anyone knows what type of oil to use in the diff that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. I would post pics but i get an error message.
 
Should be a 251 ci.
http://www.t137.com/registry/help/otherengines/tengines.html makes that # look like an early '50s 251 truck engine. you should be able to measure the stroke through a spark plug hole to make sure.

Expect you have the bottom 1/2 of the single cab? http://www.safetyoneinc.com/specsheets/pdf/J5.PDF
800px-Bombardier_J5_snow_vehicle_-_left_view.JPG


trans should be either a 3 or 4 speed


Keep working on the pictures :weneedpic
 
yes that looks like mine except I don't have the top half of the cab. Do you know the stroke so I could measure? also if anyone knows what type of oil to use in the diff. There seems to be about 3 to 5 gallons of oil in there but there also could be some water. Is 80w 90 gear oil OK?
 
So regular hydraulic oil will work? even tho there is no hydraulic or hydrostatic systems in the diff. That seems a bit light for the abuse these diffs take but i also wondered why the oil didn't smell strong like gear oil. Thanks everyone I am now one step closer to getting this thing running.
 
Transmission/hydraulic oil. Like what goes in other farm machines with brakes in the differential.
 
OK, I got you now HaHa. I searched it on Google and the description is spot on . I am not familiar with this type of oil or with other heavy/farm equipment.Where would be a good place to get some?
 
Hi OGJ5
If you are planning to use it in winter use the TDH oil, but for summer use the differential oil 80-90 SAE is the way to go.
 
JOHN DEERE HY-GARD
TEXACO TDH
SHELL DONAX TD
AMSOIL ATH
PENZOIL HYDRA-TRANZ
MOBIL MOBILFLUID 300
LUBRIPLATE UTF-C4
GULF UNIVERSAL TRACTOR FLUID
CHEVRON TORQUE FLUID
AMOCO 1000 FLUID
ESSO HYDRAUL 56
PETRO-CAN DURATRAN
UFA THG ULTRA
Here is a list of where and what for the controlled differentials.
 
There are some subtle differences between the different displacement Chrysler flat ("L") head engines (note most of this was found online with google: feel free to correct :unsure:)

The short blocks (23 inch iirc) were the 230s and down, the long blocks (25 or 25 1/4 inches) were the 251s and up: except for some long block Canadian 230s.
My understanding is that the blocks were interchangeable between displacements, with the internals (rods, pistons) making the displacement and compression differences. [i.e. swap 251 internals into a canadian long block 230 to convert to 251)

can't find my stroke reference

Now, Bombardiers were supposed (except for the very early ones) to come with industrial 251s which had sodium valves, etc.

http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/ has some good info and parts.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/flat.html has history, etc. as well


http://www.merc583.addr.com/mopar/framesets/wipengineframeset.html has good photos of the flat heads


Tags, if present should be on the bottom/left of the dash, or over your left shoulder on the inside back of the cab?

On photos - once you have them hosted on photobucket, etc. just click the "insert image" icon when posting and "Ctrl + v" paste the copied URL.
 
Hi all, some good news and bad news. The good news is it got the old flathead running after it's ten year sleep. new plugs,cleaned the points, cleaned the carb, cleaned the fuel pump, and a bit of priming and presto she's running. took it out of the garage and had a little ride and was very pleased. Bad news I went less than 1km and burned 2 gallons of gas and about half gallon of oil haha (I was told the motor was bad when it was parked). Then a rim exploded in the back and I limped home. This was a fun project to get it running and now when I get time I'll be ready for the next stage-take out the flathead and 3 speed and put in a modern 4 cylinder EFI and an automatic. Any suggestions for a donor motor?
 
a few pics.
 

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I just picked up a Bombi From a fellow member here (Dicks Bombi) Dick had installed a 240 mercedes diesel in that machine. I spent a few days tinkering with it and rigged up a nice vacumn engine shut off.
the 2.4L diesel 4spd Automatic seems to be a nice fit and sweet little runner. I understand that his machine consumed 2-4 liters of fuel per hour Grooming snomobile trails in maine. I can snap a photo of the engine bay if you would like.

I am a VW fan So my recomendations would be of the VW Audi nature but the engine family did not really have any rear drive cars to source trans from. (that is not stopping me from retro fiting a full body imp with a 1.6L turbo diesel later this summer)

Mike
 
redsqwrl said:
I just picked up a Bombi From a fellow member here (Dicks Bombi) Dick had installed a 240 mercedes diesel in that machine. I spent a few days tinkering with it and rigged up a nice vacumn engine shut off.
the 2.4L diesel 4spd Automatic seems to be a nice fit and sweet little runner. I understand that his machine consumed 2-4 liters of fuel per hour Grooming snomobile trails in maine. I can snap a photo of the engine bay if you would like.

I am a VW fan So my recomendations would be of the VW Audi nature but the engine family did not really have any rear drive cars to source trans from. (that is not stopping me from retro fiting a full body imp with a 1.6L turbo diesel later this summer)

Mike
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weather it is gas or diesel the vw lc motors they share bell housing patterns and there are several outfits that make adaptors for suzuki installs so if doing a vw transplant look into a samari trans for a conversion i think it would make a good swap good power and lightn weight
 
Nice Pics! Now that has to be one of the oldest J5's posted here so far, judging by the small axles and the early style differential cover. Keep those pics coming!
J5 Bombardier:smile:
 
Thanks J5 Bombardier! any idea what year it could be? the serial number is worn off the tag and I haven't found any model number. I love the idea of a diesel in this rig. I was thinking a 50hp or 85hp Perkins would be nice. I will probably go with a 4 Cyl Ford or Mazda they are easy to get parts for and are plentiful around here. Another thought was a 4 ltr jeep engine does anyone know if the flathead Chrysler I6 and the jeep 4 ltr I6 have the same bell housing bolt pattern?
 
Old Green J5 the 1959 model I just finished in the Restoration forum had the newer square box diff housing,so that would make yours older.The round style like yours tend to crack(something to check).The brass Bombardier oval tags on the rad screens usually survive, but on all the examples I have seen the ser: number line is always blank . Others have mentioned the left front of bombardier hulls have stamped serial numbers,but after years of abuse and mods I have never seen a stamped number surviving.
Engine wise,you have a 23 in wide hull and how much leg room ( length wise )that you want to give up for a eng/trans with rad unit.
Have fun with the project: J5 Bombardier
 
I had a j5 and had researched putting in a 4cyl Isuzu diesel from a early 1990's NPR truck!! Looked like a good fit with about 125hp and lots of old trucks are around so they are easy to find!!!
 
Hi Old Green J5.

Just want to mention, that I'm presently also restoring a J-5, that seems to be pretty well in the same era as yours. The more you touch, the more surprises surges, I guess in those days maintenance wasn't invented yet :yum:.
If you need parts let me know, I have the coordinates of a few dealer in Quebec:biggrin:.
 

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OldGreenJ5, where do you live to on the rock ?? I live on the west coast, Pasadena. I know a fellow in Pynn's Brook that has a few parts for sale for the J5. There are supposed to be a couple in Bishop's Falls also. Email me at popsshed@hotmail.com with your phone ### . May be able to help you out.

The Old Trucker

Claude
 
Hey everyone it's been a while. Since my last post I have bought another j5 this one is newer a 73 I think but it still needs a engine like my other one. Anyone try to put a smallblock chev in these or a 4.3 v6? Would probably need custom headers I would think but the power would be great. Any thoughs?
 
OldGreenJ5 said:
Hey everyone it's been a while. Since my last post I have bought another j5 this one is newer a 73 I think but it still needs a engine like my other one. Anyone try to put a smallblock chev in these or a 4.3 v6? Would probably need custom headers I would think but the power would be great. Any thoughs?
Click to expand...


Oldgreen J5... I just sent an email to you.
 
Had a friend who put a chevy 350 in a j5 and all he could say is that "you do not want to hit the gas too hard"!!! 4.3 would be plenty of power. I don't think the differential can take more than 200hp.
 
I would agree with you northeastheavy a 4.3 would be plenty of power. I'm also considering a 292 chev or 300 ford both being inline sixes but the 4.3's compact size and length might make it a good choice not to mention the dozens of old s-10's around here with them. I don't know about the width tho I guess I could raise the engine a bit for clearance without making the C of G too high. I would go with a 4 cyl but I'm afraid that it wouldn't have enough torque. When I bought the newer j5 it had a 4 cyl chevette motor in it but the guy said it didn't have any power with that motor ( it was only a 1.4 or 1.6 liter). My older j5 has the 251 Chrysler and it has lots of torque even though the motor is shot I tried to stall it out one day when the ignition broke I put it in third gear and popped the clutch with no gas and it still didn't stall!
 
OldGreenJ5 said:
The Old Trucker I didn't get your e-mail try again my e-mail is neil.burt@hotmail.com
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In case you don't get my email, here is a copy of it below.


I know a fellow in South Branch that has all kinds of experience with J5's. As a matter of fact he currently has 5 that he has rebuilt since he retired & has them for sale. I will be talking to him tonight. I'm pretty sure there are still parts available ( Colonial Garage ). I've seen a VW motor in one.
You can check with Green's Service Station in Goobies. They had a 251 rebuilt @ Colonial. I think they are selling it. There were 2 old machines @ John Cooks scrap yard on the Botwood highway. Hang on.... I just remembered... My friend in Mt. Moriah has a 251 he took out of an old Bombardier snowmobile. It is a rebuilt I think. It wasn't stuck when he took it out. I can check it out later tonight.
Eldon Bailey here in Pynn's Brook has a couple of axles & a clutch for one.
OT.
 
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