Is central HVAC worth the cost?

[buckle97]

We live in an old house, with old windows and doors, with little insulation, and it gets cold! We have window AC units for the summer and have no problem getting the house cool enough for our tastes. Any heat that builds up in the house goes right out the windows . We have propane space heaters and electric space heaters as our only heat source. I guess our biggest problem is that we don't leave any heat or air on when we are not there. For instance, we both work 8-5 M-F and there is no air movement in the house during those times. My wife turns on the air when she gets home from work, it's pretty cool when I get home, and then we turn it off when we go to bed. The heat is really a bigger deal. It will typically dip into the low 50's and even the upper 40's in the house during the day. My wife gets home at 5 and fires up the heaters, but it takes them forever to get a room even comfortable, let alone warm. Are we crazy for not leaving any heat on during the day? I guess we are mostly afraid of the space heaters starting a fire while we aren't there. Last winter was the first year we left them on while sleeping. I know replacing the windows and doors, adding more insulation, etc. will help, but it still won't keep the house that warm.

My real question is: Is it your opinion that central heat and air will provide enough benefit to outweigh the cost?

Another question: Do you leave electric or propane space heaters on while you aren't home?

 

[jwstewar]

Buckle,

My experience tells me those little space heaters are INEFFICIENT. They are not designed to heat a whole house, thus why they are called space heaters.

If I were in your shoes, I would look at a force air heat pump. If you have access to run the ductwork. The heat pump will both be your air conditioning and heat. Looks like you are in Mississippi, not knowing for sure, but I bet you don't get below 30 all that often. This would be your primary heat source. For those times it did get below 30 they could add auxillary heat strips on to the heat pump.

If you can run the duct work, again if possible I would look at some type of water/radiator type system.

I think any central/heating cooling system would cut your heating/cooling bills dramatically and make the house much more comfortable - even with the old windows.

Murph can better answer your questions as he is in the HVAC industry and has given me advice in the past.

 

[Doc]

Buckle,
Hopefully Murph will see this thread, as he is our resident HVAC expert.

I know that is is tough to put a forced air heating and cooling system in a house that was built without it in the plans. Running the duct work can be a challenge. Location of the furnace can also be an issue.
They now offer wall units that are basically a space heater with a couple of improvements. They are vented to the outside and they have a thermostat in them. If you are satisfied with your A/C as it is, you might be able to put 2 or 3 of the wall units in the proper locations so that they would keep your house comfortable 24x7.
I've heard that it is more expensive to heat a house that has been allowed to cool more than 10 degrees below your desired temp ...than it is to leave the heat on, but have it regulated with a thermostat. Again, I hope someone in the field can verify this ...but it sounded reasonable to me.

 

[bczoom]

Yes.

When you leave your heat or AC off and allow the temperatures to vary greatly (e.g. from your example "low 50's and even the upper 40's in the house during the day"), it takes a lot of energy to bring it back to a reasonable temperature. Remember, not only is the air getting hot/cold, but so is everything in the house. The heat transfer from everything in the house having to be brought back to temperature takes a lot of energy.

In the other thread, you're talking about getting a heat pump (with a programmable thermostat). Well, those new thermostats are getting pretty smart. Unfortunately, if you use your current process of shutting things down, you're probably going to use a lot of electricity. Here's what I'm talking about. Let's say the house is 60 degrees and you want it 68. Well, you crank up the thermostat. Heat pump kicks on and using the pump itself, it starts heating things up. Well, the thermostat is watching how the heating process is going. If the temp isn't rising fast enough, it'll kick on the first strip heater. Uh oh... those things eat A LOT of electricity. It's still watching the temp rise. Not fast enough (it's thinking)??? Kick on more strip heaters.

Now, if you keep the temperature relatively stable, it only has to increase or decrease the temp by a couple degrees. The programmable thermostat will allow you to define what the temp should be by hour of the day. If you're not varying it much, the heat pump (an no strips) can take care of the heating requirements. The heat pump uses very little electricity. I have a 5-ton unit and it costs me about $1-2 per day to keep it at a constant 70ish (although I supplement with wood heat below 20 degrees).

 

[bczoom]

PS. I can't speak for your attic unit as my air handler is in the basement but here's something else I've found very nice.

A little info to set up the scenario. My house is on hill that slopes from the front to the rear of the house. The front of my house is 1 story at grade and a basement below that (which is where the air handler is). The rear of the house is 2 stories above grade. Basically, I have 4 different levels.

The new furnace has an option where you can run the fan at a slow speed, all the time. I found this to be fantastic for the following reasons:
1. By having the air constantly circulate, there's less "stuff" in the air since it's constantly being pulled through the filter.
2. The temperatures across all the levels is more even. I didn't like the upstairs bedrooms getting hot when the old furnace fan wasn't running.
3. The basement used to require a couple dehumidifiers (which cost more to run than the heat pump). When I put the new air handler in, I had them run ducts in the basement. By doing so, that area stayed near the same temp as the rest of the house (although still a bit cooler). In the summer, it would draw the colder air out of the basement and spread throughout the house which lightened the AC load. Since the air is constantly circulating through the rest of the house, dry air is being put in and I no longer need to run dehumidifiers. In the winter, having that area warmer makes the upper floors much more comfortable (especially the tiled areas).

 

[Cityboy]

My real question is: Is it your opinion that central heat and air will provide enough benefit to outweigh the cost?

Yes.

Another question: Do you leave electric or propane space heaters on while you aren't home?

No.

My qualifications : Ga. Class 2 Conditioned Air Contractor's License; Ga. Class 2 Electrical Contractors License.

Wow! I don't know how you handle the Mississippi humidity and sleep at night with the air off.

I would add insulation as much as possible and replace the doors and windows along with adding central air. In Mississippi, a heat pump system will work well, but you also have the gas furnace option. Know that a quality installation is far more important than brand. Get multiple bids and select the HVAC professional you feel most comfortable with and who will be there in the years to come to back up their warranty.

HVAC installation is not a DIY project for most people, so unless you are experienced, leave it to the pros.

 

[buckle97]

I think any central/heating cooling system would cut your heating/cooling bills dramatically and make the house much more comfortable - even with the old windows.

Our bills have never actually been that high, mainly because the units are just not on that long. Basically they would run for five hours after work and then be turned off to go to bed whether the house was warm or not.
We are more than willing to spend a little more on electricity every month to make our house comfortable, we are just trying to find the best solution to do that.

 

[buckle97]

They now offer wall units that are basically a space heater with a couple of improvements. They are vented to the outside and they have a thermostat in them. If you are satisfied with your A/C as it is, you might be able to put 2 or 3 of the wall units in the proper locations so that they would keep your house comfortable 24x7.

If you are talking about ductless mini split systems, I have looked briefly into those. The biggest hurdle so far seems to be that there aren't any local techs that work on them. If I had a problem I would need to have someone local to fix it. A ductless system for my house wouldn't be any more expensive than a central system since I also need ducts run. I also think the frugal side of me would end up just turning off the units in the rooms we aren't in and then we would have the same issue. Another problem we have now is that the rooms with the AC units and heaters do get comfortable on the weekends when we are around a lot, but the rooms without a unit are still hot/cold.

 

[buckle97]

Well, those new thermostats are getting pretty smart.

We are excited about the idea of a programmable thermostat as opposed to just shutting everything down. We would love to have the house at the desired temperature when we get home from work and a programmable thermostat would allow us that comfort. After the temps we have endured for the last five years, I can't see us wanting anything warmer than 70 in the winter or cooler than 75 in the summer.

 

[buckle97]

Wow! I don't know how you handle the Mississippi humidity and sleep at night with the air off.

Necessity!

I would add insulation as much as possible and replace the doors and windows along with adding central air. In Mississippi, a heat pump system will work well, but you also have the gas furnace option. Know that a quality installation is far more important than brand. Get multiple bids and select the HVAC professional you feel most comfortable with and who will be there in the years to come to back up their warranty.

HVAC installation is not a DIY project for most people, so unless you are experienced, leave it to the pros.

My wife really wants new windows. None of our current 16 windows open. They have been painted shut for decades. The one time I tried to pry them open glazing was falling and panes were cracking. I would like new doors for effeciency as well as security. We have blown in insulation ourselves in the past and plan on adding more in the future. A big decision we also need to hurry up and make is whether we are going to stay in this house. We are definitely staying on this family land, but at some point it might make more sense to start over with a new house rather than put so much money into this old one.

 

[buckle97]

HVAC installation is not a DIY project for most people, so unless you are experienced, leave it to the pros.

You are not the first person to tell me this. I have made up my mind to let a professional do this entire installation.

 

[bczoom]

We are excited about the idea of a programmable thermostat as opposed to just shutting everything down.

I thought I would be as well but to be honest, I didn't feel like memorizing the 47 different steps to program it so I just leave it at one temperature all day/night. Heck, I have to pull out the manual to switch it from heat to A/C. Note: Keep the owners manual close to the thermostat...

 

[Cowboyjg]

Qualifier: Long time contractor, Built in mulitple regions, Restoration work, New construction.

I build new because it pays the bills, My love is vintage homes and restoration. We live in a late 1800's victorian farmhouse that we are restoring and have completed multiple other restorations.

If the old house is not where you intend to live and you have no plans to restore it for what ever reason, Move on and build new. Of course I don't know the details of your circumstance and your ability to move/build but, I guess what I'm saying is, don't go dumping 2-5K (conservative $) into the house unless you're gonna get your money back , so to speak. If you decide to put in the new system, work on the windows and seal off the leaks as best you can or your power bills will be considerable. (1st hand experience)

 

[Glenn9643]

Buckle,
My house in NewHebron was built in 1905, and I've got those old windows too. I suggest that you check into having storm windows fabricated and installed. That won't cost nearly as much as replacing all those old windows and will help tremendously with your air infiltration around the old windows. Don't know about in McComb, but in Monticello there's a glass business that will measure and give a quote for no charge. Don't recall the price, but it was a fraction of the cost of replacing windows.

 

[thcri]

We live in an old house, with old windows and doors, with little insulation, and it gets cold!

Fix this first, New Windows, Doors and Insulation will give you the fastest payback.

We have window AC units for the summer and have no problem getting the house cool enough for our tastes. Any heat that builds up in the house goes right out the windows .
My real question is: Is it your opinion that central heat and air will provide enough benefit to outweigh the cost?

Yes it will be worth it. You will be much more comfortable and when it is all in you will ask yourself why you didn't do it a long time ago. Another thing to figure is your house value will be more with a decent system especially one that does not consist of window units.

Another question: Do you leave electric or propane space heaters on while you aren't home?

I would never leave a space heater on while gone whether is it propane or electric. I also think that your efficiency over space heaters will be much better.


murph

 

[buckle97]

Based on the latest quotes I recieved in this thread, it appears we are leaning towards putting in central air and heat. I am getting excited thinking about being a little warmer this winter!