Imp track rebuilding fun, getting there

[BoyToys]

Quick update. Finished dismantling one track today, over a 3 day period and about 12 hours of full on fun. Had to cut off half a dozen nuts, another half a dozen bolts broke under the extreme torque, 50% required every foot/pound of muscle I could muster, and the rest actually cooperated to some extent. My hands arms shoulders back and legs ache.
Gonna take a break for a couple days to heal up, maybe do something mundane like drain the differential in preparation for opening it up. Then start in on the other track. Unfortunately there is no easy way...maybe I should buy a plasma cutter like some have suggested.
Meanwhile, who wants a pile of 280 period-correct nuts and bolts to keep your machine properly vintage? The belts...might save a few feet for patch material if ever needed.

 

[jflarin]

Personally, I've had problem removing the bolts on tracks (and many other placed) and also encountered bolt too hard to remove or bolts snapped (broken) by the torque. I then understood the effect of heat on bolts. Since then I always use MAPP gas to heat the nut before removing it. You have to understand that heat will dilate the nut (especially if it is heated more than the bolt) and even if both the nut and bolt are heated, dilation will increase the gap between the 2. This is a microscopic gap, but just enough to unlock the nut from the bolt.
Of course you must not heat it enough to burn the track. Just enough.

jf

 

[redsqwrl]

Quick update. Finished dismantling one track today, over a 3 day period and about 12 hours of full on fun. Had to cut off half a dozen nuts, another half a dozen bolts broke under the extreme torque, 50% required every foot/pound of muscle I could muster, and the rest actually cooperated to some extent. My hands arms shoulders back and legs ache.
Gonna take a break for a couple days to heal up, maybe do something mundane like drain the differential in preparation for opening it up. Then start in on the other track. Unfortunately there is no easy way...maybe I should buy a plasma cutter like some have suggested.
Meanwhile, who wants a pile of 280 period-correct nuts and bolts to keep your machine properly vintage? The belts...might save a few feet for patch material if ever needed.

period correct is important to some people, I however am not those people when it comes to track bolts

 

[BoyToys]

Personally, I've had problem removing the bolts on tracks (and many other placed) and also encountered bolt too hard to remove or bolts snapped (broken) by the torque. I then understood the effect of heat on bolts. Since then I always use MAPP gas to heat the nut before removing it. You have to understand that heat will dilate the nut (especially if it is heated more than the bolt) and even if both the nut and bolt are heated, dilation will increase the gap between the 2. This is a microscopic gap, but just enough to unlock the nut from the bolt.
Of course you must not heat it enough to burn the track. Just enough.

jf

I have used heat before and it does help sometimes; believe me I tried that too. For really stubborn nuts and bolts you need to get them red hot. I don't care about the rubber since it's all garbage anyway and I'll be replacing with new.
The time it takes to wrench off bolts, heat them up or break them off, takes me less time to just cut them off with my plasma cutter since I'll be replacing with new anyway.
Got a lot done this afternoon...have only 12 grousers (60 bolts) left to remove.

 

[BoyToys]

Progress my friends....progress! One completely rebuilt, working on the second one. Waiting on gaskets and seals for my C-4 differential to complete corrective surgery on the innards. Hopefully have it all back together and operational in the next couple of weeks if the weather holds out.

 

[BoyToys]

Update for those who are following this saga.

Belts are completely rebuilt, all rolled up pending reinstallation. I figure I've got at least 36 man-hours into them. So if I were to have farmed out the work at $80/hrs then the entire rebuild would run a little over $5,000. Luckily my labor is free. Just tuck that away next time you run into someone selling a cat with new tracks.
Next up is to repair the differential innards (just need to turn the carrier assembly 180°), set the ring and pinion backlash, install new seals and gaskets, and reinstall.
In other words, more fun and games before I can put the tracks back on.

 

[BoyToys]

Finished the differential rebuild today, everything now in its proper orientation instead of bass-ackwards as it was before. Steering brake bands are a female dog to rough adjust, you can only get them so tight since they can't be adjusted while under tension. Design flaw, or maybe that's intentional. All that remains is to bolt up the axle tubes and hoist it back under the Imp....and wrestle the new tracks in place. Hopefully before Friday when snow is forecast. My old bones are running out of steam but I'm incentivized. All done single handedly by me myself and I.

 

[Raven]

Morning ... I'm sure you've answered this question before but where are you getting belts ?

I've got a Prinoth that needs belts, they are a 3 ply but FallLine is spendy !

Thanks

 

[BoyToys]

Morning ... I'm sure you've answered this question before but where are you getting belts ?

I've got a Prinoth that needs belts, they are a 3 ply but FallLine is spendy !

Thanks

Yes Falline is extremely expensive but they must figure they have a captive audience. Regardless, I went with them because I didn't want to screw around with trying to find alternate sources, some of which may be Falline's manufacturers and sworn not to sell to people with snow cats. Plus they punch the holes for you which saves a lot of time...part of the markup I'm sure.

 

[BoyToys]

Finished putting the differential back in three days ago, put one track on yesterday and the other one on this morning ahead of snow forecast. Hooked up the drive line, shift linkage, and brake levers before the snow started coming down. All that's left is to fill up the differential/transmission with oil (I'm using NAPA 85-405 tractor transmission hydraulic)....maybe tomorrow or the next day depending on how much white stuff I have to work around.
Tracks were extremely difficult to put on. I've read many posts on the subject but getting them stretched far enough to line up the belt lacing was a female dog to say the least. Spent 3 hours per track, using everything from a come-along to strut spring compressors and dang near gave up. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong but they're on and I have maybe 6"+ of slack between the top of the track and wheels when pulling up on the center of the track, so I would say the tension is correct. Sure as he'll hope so.

 

[tommu56]

I don't know about IMP's but I worked at a conveyor shop and put miles of belts on our go to was 2 bars clampeed to each side with C clamps and 2 pipe clamps one on each side pulling on the bars to pull belt in place that way you can tweek each side to get the lacing in line to get pin in to it.

 

[BoyToys]

I don't know about IMP's but I worked at a conveyor shop and put miles of belts on our go to was 2 bars clampeed to each side with C clamps and 2 pipe clamps one on each side pulling on the bars to pull belt in place that way you can tweek each side to get the lacing in line to get pin in to it.

Thanks. I definitely need to fabricate something. The first track I did with a come- along and C clamp, the second one I used a pair of strutt spring compressors but even those were iffy.

 

[Blackfoot Tucker]

Thanks. I definitely need to fabricate something. The first track I did with a come- along and C clamp, the second one I used a pair of strutt spring compressors but even those were iffy.

Boy Toys,

I highly recommend using factory track jacks (or replicas thereof) as opposed to any other method, at least any other method I've tried. When you've done it the hard way and use a good track jack you'll be smiling because you'll appreciate just how much easier they make the process.

I know Dan Gates at Snowcat Service in SLC sells them for Thiokols, but I think the price will motivate you to fabricate your own. There just isn't that much to them to justify those prices. Here's a link:

Snowcat Tracks

We sell all types of snowcat track parts. From Track jacks to grousers and backing plates we can be your one stop shop.

www.snowcatservice.com

When I bought my first Tucker I was given a single Thiokol track jack. I still have it (somewhere) and if you need pics, let me know and I'll see if I can find it.

 

[BoyToys]

Boy Toys,

I highly recommend using factory track jacks (or replicas thereof) as opposed to any other method, at least any other method I've tried. When you've done it the hard way and use a good track jack you'll be smiling because you'll appreciate just how much easier they make the process.

I know Dan Gates at Snowcat Service in SLC sells them for Thiokols, but I think the price will motivate you to fabricate your own. There just isn't that much to them to justify those prices. Here's a link:

Snowcat Tracks

We sell all types of snowcat track parts. From Track jacks to grousers and backing plates we can be your one stop shop.

www.snowcatservice.com

When I bought my first Tucker I was given a single Thiokol track jack. I still have it (somewhere) and if you need pics, let me know and I'll see if I can find it.

Hey BFT,
Yeah, if you can find it and take few picts...maybe throw in some rough measurements...it could be a good winter project for me to do some fabrication. It would be hard for me to plunk down $500....or $1000 for two of them. Especially since I never ever never intend to take these tracks off again, right?

 

[PJL]

Our 1200 came with 2 track jacks. When the shop guys put it back together they said it was a piece of cake. I can take some pics and post them.

 

[BoyToys]

Our 1200 came with 2 track jacks. When the shop guys put it back together they said it was a piece of cake. I can take some pics and post them.

Cool!

 

[vintagebike]

two different Thiokol track jacks came with our 1985 LMC1500. Traded one off to my friend SnowCat Tim and now have a matching set tucked away in the rear box.

 

[rockaukum]

I feel your pain! Yes we all hope to not have to deal with the tracks once we rebuild them. Unfortunately, things just happen and when they do, it rarely happens where or when you would like!
For instance, the last run of last season, this happens! The jacks do help, but to me the real pain is / was moving the tracks around in the snow without any mechanical aid. I have since put a receiver hitch on the back and will hook up the winch. I will try to find some type of snow anchor and use it for a directional change in order to move the track into alignment with the wheels.

 

[Blackfoot Tucker]

Hey BFT,
Yeah, if you can find it and take few picts...maybe throw in some rough measurements...it could be a good winter project for me to do some fabrication. It would be hard for me to plunk down $500....or $1000 for two of them. Especially since I never ever never intend to take these tracks off again, right?

At long last, here are some pics.

About a year ago a great friend helped me enormously with a garage "re-organization". I'll bet you can tell where this is headed.... So now everything is in its place... except sometimes I don't know where that place might be.

Even with "Biden dollars", worth a fraction of what they used to be, that doesn't look like $500 of value to me. (With the Thiokol style like these you really need two.)

 

[BoyToys]

I feel your pain! Yes we all hope to not have to deal with the tracks once we rebuild them. Unfortunately, things just happen and when they do, it rarely happens where or when you would like!
For instance, the last run of last season, this happens! The jacks do help, but to me the real pain is / was moving the tracks around in the snow without any mechanical aid. I have since put a receiver hitch on the back and will hook up the winch. I will try to find some type of snow anchor and use it for a directional change in order to move the track into alignment with the wheels.

My definition of a nightmare! Uggghhhh.....
When I eventually get my Imp up to the cabin, I will be alone 99% of the time and would dread breaking down for any reason.

 

[BoyToys]

At long last, here are some pics.

About a year ago a great friend helped me enormously with a garage "re-organization". I'll bet you can tell where this is headed.... So now everything is in its place... except sometimes I don't know where that place might be.

View attachment 172251

View attachment 172252

View attachment 172253

View attachment 172254View attachment 172255

View attachment 172256

Even with "Biden dollars", worth a fraction of what they used to be, that doesn't look like $500 of value to me. (With the Thiokol style like these you really need two.)

Perfect! Thanks for taking the time. I was starting to think of using modified pipe clamps, weld on extensions to get a deeper grip, etc. then ran into this and got my brain thinking if it might work with some modifications. I'll figure something out and share once I have something workable. Definitely want a couple of these on-board just in case.

 

[DAVENET]

I would be wary of any aluminum bar option, especially Harbor Freight. Once you extend the 'grip bars' enough to properly grab grousers, you are applying a load of leverage onto that aluminum bar.

 

[BoyToys]

I would be wary of any aluminum bar option, especially Harbor Freight. Once you extend the 'grip bars' enough to properly grab grousers, you are applying a load of leverage onto that aluminum bar.

Agreed. I just like the concept/design. They probably make one with a steel bar. I may pursue further

 

[Cidertom]

I made a set for my snow trac using 5/8" all thread and 3/4" pipe. the bars that grip the grousers are welded to the pipe stubs which ride on the all thread. The advantage is they take apart so it makes storage on the cat much easier. The disadvantage I see with the bar clamp is lack of travel. I would guess I usually have 18-24" between the bars when I start. Probably could get the ends closer with a ratchet strap to start with.

 

[BoyToys]

That's kinda where my thoughts are going. A standard bar clamp, 1/2 or 3/4' pipe and modify with a longer length of all-thread and weld on extensions to the clamps.

 

[Mechanic]

上午。。。我相信你之前已经回答过这个问题，但你从哪里得到腰带？

我有一个需要腰带的 Prinoth，它们是 3 层的，但 FallLine 很花钱！

谢谢

各位朋友，大家好，我想帮你。我有很多prinoth和pistenbully皮带和铝棒，它们都很好，皮带来自欧洲，铝棒来自中国。请不要担心，它们质量很好。如果你需要它，请告诉我，我会给你寄一些。

 

[Mechanic]

各位朋友，大家好，我想帮你。我有很多prinoth和pistenbully皮带和铝棒，它们都很好，皮带来自欧洲，铝棒来自中国。请不要担心，它们质量很好。如果你需要它，请告诉我，我会给你寄一些。

 

[redsqwrl]

Doc.?

 

[Cidertom]

He says all his belts are from europe. let him know what you need.... h'mmmm ya'no!

 

[BoyToys]

At long last, here are some pics.

About a year ago a great friend helped me enormously with a garage "re-organization". I'll bet you can tell where this is headed.... So now everything is in its place... except sometimes I don't know where that place might be.

View attachment 172251

View attachment 172252

View attachment 172253

View attachment 172254View attachment 172255

View attachment 172256

Even with "Biden dollars", worth a fraction of what they used to be, that doesn't look like $500 of value to me. (With the Thiokol style like these you really need two.)

Hey buddy, here's what I came up with. Finished yesterday and posted over in the dedicated Thiokol section.
Should work ok, but of course there are a couple things I would do differently when I build a second one. About $50 in parts and many hours of my free labor.