Fuel pump problems

[zspryte]

I went to replace my stock fuel filter last fall and found a foamy jell everywhere inside the canister and completely coating the filter. You can see the cake after the junk dried. Occasionally in spring I get vapor lock so I pulled the mechanical fuel pump, installed an electric fuel pump, and replaced the entire fuel line with braided hose. I added heat shield around the hose above the engine and a second clear filter after the solenoid fuel valve. When I finished, I filled the gas tank, added stabilizer, and all ran fine. After sitting idle for two months in warm/cold fall weather, the engine started, but I couldn't move the cat because it would die when I put load on it. My new electric pump died with less than one hour of use. I replaced the electric Carter solenoid pump (very quite) with a new Carter vane pump (noisy) and added a can of SeaFoam. The engine fired up and ran fine all winter. Due to a drought snow year, I didn't use it much and only used about a tank and half of gas. For the last few months, the cat sat idle with a half tank. I fired it up this weekend. The engine ran about two minutes and then stopped and won't start. My latest fuel pump died. Both fuel pumps had brand new standard inline filters immediately upstream of them.

I have had this Spryte 9 years and only once had a water issue. A little ice accumulated in my fuel filter. Warmed the filter and put in a can of SeaFoam and all was well. I installed a new aluminum fuel tank 3 years ago. It is on the rear deck like the one it replaced. The tank is more boxier than the old steel one. I don't know if the aluminum or tank shape is causing more water to collect in it.

At this point I speculate that water accumulated in the fuel tank. The small filter got overloaded with water and this choked the flow to the pump or something like that. I did some digging on the Carter site and found that too much water in the fuel, especially if it separates, can kill a pump. They don't really say how or why.

I am thinking about adding a marine type fuel filter that has a drainable water bowl on it. I think Kristi's use something like this. Has anybody else used this type of filter? Also, has anybody had a similar problem? If so, how did you fix it?

 

[300 H and H]

On farm equiptment that is prone to set out side, there are sediment/water bowls under the fuel tanks. As water is heavier, they tend to seperate in this sediment bowl. Gotta wonder if you had one, that simply drianing this bowl occasionally wouldn't do the trick.

I had the Carter electric fuel pumps on a car. Had nothing but trouble untill I got a Holley pump.... That was 12 years ago, or so....

Regards, Kirk

 

[rcc]

If you are running regular octane gas which will have 10% (or more) ethanol, this will happen, as ethanol absorbs water like crazzzzzyyyyy...!
Use only high octane (not the blend) the best you can get, as it does not have any ethanol in it and will be cleaner, purchase it at a station that monitors the moisture in the storage tanks.
I would clean out and flush with fresh high test gas, put on a good mechanical pump and try again using super good fuel.
Fixed all my fuel problems...

 

[Sylvia Tunaskas]

When I forst got my cat (6 years ago) I had similar problems. The stock electric fuel shut off valve assembly had been removed. (it had a water collection bowl on it) I ended up installing a clear inline filter between the tank and the stock fuel pump in hopes of being able to see water in the line. I then started adding a gallon of Methanol (not Ethanol) to each 45 gallon tank. (I was able to find it in bulk at a car racing after market retail outlet in my area that sold in gallon quantities, approx $5 a gallon) No more water issues.

This year my carb died, and I was told the Ethanol mix in pump gas was most likely the culprit. I will drain my tank this off season and fill it with Ethanol free fuel and still add the Methanol as it is not supposed to be harmful to the carb. The link below is to locations around the country that sell Ethanol - free gas.

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=WA

 

[jp11]

If you want methanol... just a bit..

the YELLOW can of dry gas (usually HEAT brand) is all methanol.

I have methanol by the barrel for my biodiesel production. But the small yellow jug will do you right for water removal purposed.

If it was me.. I'd have DRAINED that tank and started over. use that old junk to start a fire or something.

JP

 

[300 H and H]

Around these parts we use Isopropyl alcohol to absorb water in fuel. Methanol will eat many things in todays fuel systems. No wonder your carb got eaten up. I would put a sediment/ water bowl on it like it had originally.

 

[zspryte]

Hummmm … Time to look at what the marine and aircraft industry do about water in gasoline with ethanol. Boats use the same gas as cars and snowcats. It turns out that gas sucks water out of the air very very slowly. Mercury Marine says it takes one gallon of gasoline over 200 days to suck 0.15 teaspoons of water out of the air at room temperature at 100% humidity in an open container. Ethanol absorbs water even slower than gasoline so gas with 15% ethanol would take even longer to absorb the same amount of water. They way water is getting into the fuel in your tank is either - it is in the fuel when you put it in your tank, it is leaking into your tank, or it is condensation. Mercury says the main way for boats is condensation. Also, the less gas in the tank, the more condensation you get so keep your tank full.

The big difference between gasoline and gasoline with ethanol is the physics and chemistry. Gas with 15% ethanol can hold 3.8 teaspoons of water in solution at room temperature or about 25 times as much as pure gas. If you add more water than it can hold in solution, the water just remains as water. The problem is when the temperature drops you can get phase separation. When the temperature is 20F, the amount of water each can hold in solution drops by about half from what they can hold at 70F. When you have more water in solution in straight gas than it can hold, the extra water comes out as essentially water. So you have gas with water dissolved in it and some mainly water stuff in your tank. When gas has ethanol in it, the “extra” water in solution comes out of the gas and takes the ethanol with it. The water/ethanol mix can combine with other things in the gas and debris to form a gelatinous emulsion (their words – not mine). This emulsion is very viscous and stops up pumps and filters. (This is probably what I say in my mechanical fuel pump and killed my electric fuel pumps.) Since the emulsion has no lubricating gasoline in it, the fuel pump does not get lubrication and fails. Just 10 gallons of fully saturated gas with ethanol can create nearly a cup of emulsion. Also, ethanol is higher in octane than the gas so the ethanol-water mix is high octane, like 115, and the separated gas is low octane. Neither is good for the engine.

Water/fuel separators with good fine (10 micron) filters are standard equipment in planes and most boats. Adding a filter with a water bowl seems like a pretty simple way to protect a fuel pump and carburetor so I am going do that. Then all I will have to do is to remember to drain the bowl and keep the tank full. I am thinking about adding a cover over my fuel tank to keep the snow from sitting on the tank. This supposedly helps reduce condensation.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

the racore filters are the best. I believe it's the r26-s is what you want. when you buy the filter kit ensure you get the water bowl for the gasoline application as the bowls are product specific .

 

[rcc]

That is interesting, i generally don't (didn't) have a fuel problems at 70F it is all the degrees under 70 and into the - numbers that are a problem. All thous "other things" they refer to are more additives along with the gunk "ethanol". as it gets colder these chemicals try to separate especially with the moisture present.
Clip from PetroCanada website... "Ethanol-blended fuels are not for aircraft. For two-stroke and four-stroke engines contact the manufacturer to find out what precautions to take". My Mercury 115hp is made to take E85 gas, but they do not recommend using it unless you have nothing else or unless you operate it constantly and the fuel does not sit, same with my Skidoo 1200 Renegade. The injectors and carb will all look like your pump if you let them sit with ethanol based gas. The manufactures of engines also highly recommend running out all gas and draining the fuel back to the tank if going to storage to prevent sludge from forming.
Use super clean high grade 91 - 94 octane it is already filtered at quality gas stations. I have not had one problem since switching everything that sits around from season to season. I have 3 j5's and a BR100+ and they get the same treatment.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

one thing I noticed about gas filters this year was gas left in them was turning brown but gas in the tank is staying clear. I'm guessing something in the gas is breaking down the insides of the filters.

 

[muleman]

All the boaters and Amish run ethanol free 94 octane and never have a problem. My riding mower runs fine on regular as do my old B&S engines. My 2 cycles only get the 94 ethanol free. It almost looks like algae is forming in that one pic. Clean the tank real good and add some algaecide to some good fuel. A water trap sediment bowl should help protect the pump.

 

[zspryte]

In CA it is very hard to find ethanol free gas. There is only a handful of stations that sell it. So I got a Racor filter with water separator on order.

Could the stuff trapped by the filter be working back down into the bowl and that is what is causing its content to turn brown.

 

[rcc]

I am in a little town of 1300 people in Ontario, fortunately we have one local gas station that keeps good gas (high test) for the snowmachines and boats etc.

As for the "content to turn brown" per my previous post "drain the lines" of that stuff... and it is not going to get any better as the regulations put more "stuff" in the gas, so far the only solution is super clean 94, as you say, if you can get it.