Frostbite and LMC 1500 recovery

[Snowcat Operations]

Hey Guys just a word of caution about frostbite. Yesterday started out as a beautiful day. The temp was 6 degrees and no clouds in sight. That quickly changed 4 hours into tha adavanced operators course I was taking.

VERIZON purchased two LMC 1500 which are very nice cats. This particular one in the class was a TURD. The hadle latches broke, engine started to smoke and tranny was acting up. The instructor decided the cat was unsafe since all of these things started to go wrong with it. He decide to bring it back down to the trailer and load it up and continue the class splitting the remainder of the cat crew up between the "good" cats. Thats when the tranny froze up. It would not come out of drive. The weather was starting to get nasty at this point. the wind started in and the tempurature dropped.

As we hooked up my recovery straps to the cat the weather really got nasty! Visability was 10 feet at best and the wind chill was between - 40 and -60 degrees below zero. Everyone not involved in the recovery stayed in there cats and the other two guys kept going back in to our cats to prevent frostbite. Even with these precautions a few of us had white patches on our noses and cheeks. This is the beggining of frostbite and you MUST get shelter if you see this.

Had the cat broke down a few minutes later it would have just been abondoned. As it was the instructor was able to get it in nuetral and get it started. The engine was maybe running on two cylinders but it ran never the less and was towed back to the trailer 5 miles away by a Trooper Camoplast. I brung up the rear and all made it out ok.

At 12,226 feet the weather can turn on you in a matter of minutes. Be prepared and limit your exposure out in the wind. I would have stayed out until everything was hooked up but the Instructor limited my time outside and sent me back to my cat every 60 seconds being out of it. I still had some beggining stages frostbite! If it wasnt for his knowledge being in these extreme conditions I probrably wouldnt have a nose. I am just glad I learned this in a class environment with people who know what they are doing. I now will carry this knowledge with me out in the field. IF you havent taken a snowcat operators course I highly reccomend Saftey One out of Colorado. The have several basic operators courses each year. I took one of those 7 years ago and learned life saving skills in that course. This course the advanced operators course was incredable! Sorry I didnt take any pictures but the camera lens froze solid with ice. Besides out in that stuff I really didnt give a shit about getting pictures.

 

[mkntrakes]

Well here is the lesson for all buying used equipment just because it looks good doesn't make it mechanical sound and new paint doesn't make it a new machine. I'm' curious if they had used this machine before the class and if the machine was equipped with enough safety gear that they could have survived for eight hours?

 

[fogtender]

Frostbite is not something that you want to play with. We get alot of people that come to Alaska that have no clue about the cold. Being at 50 below zero is cold, being in a place where the wind chill is -50 is cold too but not as bad. The differance is that at 50 below and no wind, it can hurt to just breath hard and everything you touch is Fifty below zero also, where the wind just makes the skin freeze quickly at -50 wind chill. Regardless, either can kill you if you don't pay attention to what is going on.

Some people when they are freezing to death, start to take clothes off thinking they are getting warmer, when they aren't.

When we travel out of Nenana on the snowmachines and Snowcats in the winter, we carry all sorts of survival gear in the event that things don't go as planned. At times I have left town at 10 above and withing a few hours, the clouds have cleared off and it can drop to -40 in that time span. At times, it can get to -60 here and stay that way for a matter of weeks, then warm up to -20 and it feels like summer is here!

What a lot of people don't realize is that when it gets down to -40 and colder, metal becomes brittle, diesel fuel jells, fan belts crack and break and stuff quits running. The "wind chill" factor isn't as bad on equipment as is the "static" temp, but the wind chill will pull the heat out of your body just as quickly.

Anyway, dress for the occation and assume the worst, that way when it doesnt' happen, it is a good trip!!

Wind chill chart: http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ssd/html/windchil.htm

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Well here is the lesson for all buying used equipment just because it looks good doesn't make it mechanical sound and new paint doesn't make it a new machine. I'm' curious if they had used this machine before the class and if the machine was equipped with enough safety gear that they could have survived for eight hours?

The Verizon cat was not tested from what I understand. I believe it was delivered straight from the dealer. I didnt ask who that was. At the time I didnt care. Hind sight I guess I should have. It also could have been from a Private sale but since they bought two I kinda doubt it. The cat was outfitted with a very nice survival kit but lacked a shuvel which I lent them at the beggining of the class. They also had a case of MREs but one of the crew members did not have a sleeping bag. I lent him my spare one from my cat. I also had picked up a new bag from Wiggy's! Man what a nice bag. But more on that later. They would have survived but it would have been a miserable night! I think I can see a Camoplas or two in Verizons future! A call was made to the President of Verizon and from what I understand he wasnt non to happy about the cats! I be;live from now on these guys will only get new equipment. Lets hope so at least.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Frostbite is not something that you want to play with. We get alot of people that come to Alaska that have no clue about the cold. Being at 50 below zero is cold, being in a place where the wind chill is -50 is cold too but not as bad. The differance is that at 50 below and no wind, it can hurt to just breath hard and everything you touch is Fifty below zero also, where the wind just makes the skin freeze quickly at -50 wind chill. Regardless, either can kill you if you don't pay attention to what is going on.

Some people when they are freezing to death, start to take clothes off thinking they are getting warmer, when they aren't.

When we travel out of Nenana on the snowmachines and Snowcats in the winter, we carry all sorts of survival gear in the event that things don't go as planned. At times I have left town at 10 above and withing a few hours, the clouds have cleared off and it can drop to -40 in that time span. At times, it can get to -60 here and stay that way for a matter of weeks, then warm up to -20 and it feels like summer is here!

What a lot of people don't realize is that when it gets down to -40 and colder, metal becomes brittle, diesel fuel jells, fan belts crack and break and stuff quits running. The "wind chill" factor isn't as bad on equipment as is the "static" temp, but the wind chill will pull the heat out of your body just as quickly.

Anyway, dress for the occation and assume the worst, that way when it doesnt' happen, it is a good trip!!

I am quite aware of when people start taking stuff off when they are freezing to death. Have some pictures of one such man who was found after a few days. He attempted to build a shelter but was found partially out of it with his top clothing off. Sad sight. I too have tons of survival gear and have since the class added a few other things to my get NOW list. For my work the Super Imp is a little to small. It is though the PERFECT cabin cat! I will also be adding two addition OYSSEY batteries. (GET these batteries! THEY are unbelievable!) All of my survival gear for two people fills the entire bed (OK so I had the kitchen sink! BUT That and 700 pounds of equipment would make for a FULL cat. Thats also all my spare parts, bogies and tools ect. ect.. I am still in the process of miniaturizing it. BUT I feel sometimes people don't carry enough gear because "NOTHING HAS EVER HAPPENED AND IM TIRED OF ALWAYS LOADING ALL THIS GEAR!" My luck is if I ever did that thats when I would break down! No, survival gear takes first priority for me. It better to have it and NOT need it than to need it and NOT have it! As it stands I can survive for at least one week very comfortably in the field in the absolute worst conditions. My personal gear was great on the trip. BUT I lacked a proper face mask and just relied upon the cover of my hood and zipped up jacket. I had a 2 in wide opening exposing my nose and cheek bones. NEVER again! I am buting a face mask and goggles. If I had had these simple two cheap items I would have been 100% protected. The wind chill is what I didn't take into account. That wind can be a killer!

 

[fogtender]

I have been driving snowmachines for years (ok, since they started to make them) and about two years ago I bought a Helmet with a 12V electic heated faceshield. I know they have been around for years, but can't believe that I never got around to ordering one sooner.

At -20, you can't keep your full face helmet shield clear unless you crack it open and the result is a cold wind blowing in and frosting your eyelashes, nose hairs and skin... all just to be able to see where your are going..

I can wear a good warm neck wrap under the helmet and with the lens down and heated, it is like being inside. The fact that the cold is gone off the face is truely neat! The downside is that the bottom of the helmet builds a lot of frost from breathing, but if the small vents on the helmet are opened, they allow some transfer of moist air and not a lot of cold air in... Makes for a very good day on the snow.

Anyway, just brought that up for those that have never used one! Well worth the investment!

 

[ALLEN PARSONS]

Yes frostbite is something to avoid at all cost. If you can. My incounter with frostbite happen,Not in caten, But mountianeering a few years ago.

We were trying to be the first to climb a peek in the winter. We have been trying for about four years previous to this climb. But each year we were turned back by winter storms. This one year we flew in all our heavy gear and dropped it out of a plane. It took two days to climb up and retreve the gear and set up bace camp. We found everything but the fuel. With out that the trip would be lost again. It took about one hour to find a corner of the box sticking out of the snow 500 feet above us. We just got the box down to camp When we notice the sound of the wind had changed to a ery howl in the peeks around us. Within ten minutes we were in fifty to sixty mile anhour winds and the tem. dropped to minus twenty.

For four days we were in whiteout with very high winds and lots of snow. We were tent bound the hole time and the only time you went outside was to dig out the tent and take a pee. If you had to drop your pants( BOY DID YOU DO THAT FAST). I ended up with minor frostbite on the face. And a climbing partner had minor frostbite on his fingers.

On day 6 we heard on the VHF radio that yet another storm was going to hit us that nite. We took that little brake in the weather to get the hell out of there. By the time we decended 2000 feet. we could here the wind start to howl again in the peaks above us.

It is a different feeling when a trip turns bad and you must go into the servival mood.

Two years ago we did make the summit.

 

[Catless]

What Peak?

I had a trip like that in the Wilsons of Colorado - Circa 1976. I had a winter like that west of Big Piney, Wyoming too! (circa 1982). Since then, I have tried to stay out of the fray. Beer is better than cold, wind, and climbing...........

grd

 

[ALLEN PARSONS]

What Peak?

I had a trip like that in the Wilsons of Colorado - Circa 1976. I had a winter like that west of Big Piney, Wyoming too! (circa 1982). Since then, I have tried to stay out of the fray. Beer is better than cold, wind, and climbing...........

grd

No it go's like this. Cold, Wind, and climbing then beer.
I love climbing.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Great story!

 

[ALLEN PARSONS]

What Peak?



The peak was Mount. Alfred
Here is a photo of it. Sorry for taking so long to get back to you.
The main summit is in behind and you can not see it.
It takes a day to snowshoe into the bace with a 50Lb pack on. Then a another day to climb to the glacier on the left. That is where we were caught in the storm. Then one more day to climb to the summit and back to camp.
The last three photos are looking across the glacier from bace camp to the peak you see in the first photo. the main summit is still off to the left.
F....dam.................k was it cold.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Excellent pictures! Man what a beautiful place.