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French Free Speech

Good find BD. And .....congrats on going over the 1k posts mark, your amoung a handful that has posted that many here on FF. THANKS!!!!!!!!
 
I don't approve of the mass protests, especially the ones that have turned violent or threaten violence.

But, these articles do bring out a point I had not seen previously. That point is that Islam prohibits any depiction of the Prophet Muhammad, period --regardless of whether it's good or bad. Fom that point of view, a cartoon of Muhammad would be considered offensive even if it showed him doing good works.

That is a considerable and significant difference in the way we view things, and could justify reasonable protests against a lack of respect for their religion.

However, until they are willing to acknowledge their own offensive depictions of Christians, Jews and others, and make a serious effort to eliminate those offenses, I don't have a lot of sympathy for them.
 
OkeeDon said:
I don't approve of the mass protests, especially the ones that have turned violent or threaten violence.

But, these articles do bring out a point I had not seen previously. That point is that Islam prohibits any depiction of the Prophet Muhammad, period --regardless of whether it's good or bad. Fom that point of view, a cartoon of Muhammad would be considered offensive even if it showed him doing good works.

That is a considerable and significant difference in the way we view things, and could justify reasonable protests against a lack of respect for their religion.

However, until they are willing to acknowledge their own offensive depictions of Christians, Jews and others, and make a serious effort to eliminate those offenses, I don't have a lot of sympathy for them.
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Don,
Your post brings up a good point, a conundrum of sorts:

If
"That point is that Islam prohibits any depiction of the Prophet Muhammad, period",
Then
How would these geniuses recognize the Prophet Muhammad??? Since there can be no depiction of him, how would any muslim identify him???

See the oddity here?:confused:
 
OkeeDon said:
But, these articles do bring out a point I had not seen previously. That point is that Islam prohibits any depiction of the Prophet Muhammad, period --regardless of whether it's good or bad. Fom that point of view, a cartoon of Muhammad would be considered offensive even if it showed him doing good works.
Click to expand...

I wish I could find the website(s) I found but I can't seem to - anyway since this whole cartoon thing started I have been trying to follow it pretty closely. While doing my searching thru Google I came across a couple of websites that have all sorts of images of Muhammed from down thru the ages. There is apparently even an image of Muhammed at the US Supreme Court representing him as a lawgiver. Some of these images apparently even have come from Muslim printed books and such.

But all of this is irrelevant - in this country - and in the European countries, we have freedom of the press. We have it for a reason - to protect our rights as citizens from whatever force might try to opress us - whether it is govermental or religious. How is the printing of cartoons denigrating Mohammed any different than the artist who did Piss Christ a few years back? You may not have agreed with Piss Christ but too bad - you don't have to look either. So what if pictures of Mohammed are forbidden - I am not, and neither are most people in this country or the European countries - Muslim. Should I also not eat pork and beat my wife because that is the way the Muslims would do things? Should pray to Mecca 5 times a day so that I don't offend the Muslims? Hell there are many laws in this country that would not be tolerated if we lived under Islamic Sharia law - should we get rid of those too?

It is my personal opinion that the editors in Europe have done us all a great favor by exposing the true mindset of many of these Muslims. Many Muslims will say that it is a religion of peace and that the so called terrorists are distorting the religion. However there are also ex-Muslims out there on the internet who claim that terrorism and violence is the true soul of Islam - and the people who claim it is a religion of peace just haven't read the Koran carefully enough:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Author/Sina.htm
 
After posting what I said about the depiction of Muhammad, I learned about the picture of him at the Supreme Court. I also learned that about 8 years ago, American Muslims asked for it to be removed, citing the Islamic prohibition. The Chief Justice refused, saying that Muhammad had played an important role in the history of Man's law, which was the point of the pictures in the Court building. The picture remains, and the Muslims remain upset, but no one is threatening to burn the building down.

I also learned that the Danish newspaper first published the cartoons 5 months ago! And, the protests are just happening now. It apparently took that long for the radical Muslims to organize their protests. I also learned that the official governments of Iran and Syria have undertaken a great deal of the responsibility for organizing and spreading the protests.

Finally, the cartoons are apparently being widely circulated on Muslim web sites in order to incite the common folks to greater protests. In other words, the instigators of the protests are breaking their own rules, and are widely publishing the depictions of Muhammad.

In other words, the entire thing is bogus and is being fermented by radical Muslim leaders for purposes of their own.

Frankly, it scares me.
 
OkeeDon said:
In other words, the entire thing is bogus and is being fermented by radical Muslim leaders for purposes of their own.

Frankly, it scares me.
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Good heavens Don! You have come to the same conclusion as I, and I, therefore, agree with you. :eek:

Having time sitting at airports this last week watching CNN over and over again, I'd learned most all of the other stuff you'd said. I'm sort of surprised that CNN is all but calling Muslim leaders and "clerics" hypocrites.

P.S. What's worse Don is that not only CNN, but you are now agreeing with something that Condi Rice has been saying. :eek: You won't sleep for a week now. :D
 
Condi Rice watches CNN. Besides, Fox News has been almost hyperventilating in their coverage. In some cases, the truth is the truth, and even Condi can't ignore it or make up some doublespeak to try to explain it away. I'm not sure the new Majority House Leader could understand it, however; I've notice a definite kinship to Charlie McCarthy.
 
Aww, c'mon Don. You secretly think Condi is hot and you like her thinking. I can't comment on Fox News. It seems that CNN has a lock on the airports. You'll have to fill me in on what unbiased news I've missed on Fox News. :thumb: ;)
 
If the Bird Flu gets started in that part of the world first, they will have more to riot about than some cartoons. Then they will be clamoring for all the research and medicine that the Western Democracies can provide to save them. What I find more hyprocritical is that we are willing to spend more money to help the people that hate us than we are willing to spend on our own citizens. I remember one of the comments that President Bush made when we went to invade Iraq. He was going to make sure that every citizen got free medical treatment and a good education when democracy was restored to Iraq. Now, we can't even restore basic human needs after all the money and lives that we have spent since the invasion....
 
Junkman said:
I remember one of the comments that President Bush made when we went to invade Iraq. He was going to make sure that every citizen got free medical treatment and a good education when democracy was restored to Iraq. Now, we can't even restore basic human needs after all the money and lives that we have spent since the invasion....
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It would be nice if we could provide those same services to everyone here in the US.
 
Junkman said:
He was going to make sure that every citizen got free medical treatment and a good education when democracy was restored to Iraq.
Click to expand...
President Bush lives in a fantasy world where everything is candy coated. He cannot see the contradictions or the irony in what he promises.
 
Junkman said:
If the Bird Flu gets started in that part of the world first, they will have more to riot about than some cartoons.
Click to expand...

That is just what that part of the world needs - a good heaping dose of avian bird flu. It would of course all get attributed to a CIA conspiracy and a plot by the west to wipe out the world of Islam but who cares. I do remember reading recently that some diseases like polio and malaria are making comebacks in parts of Africa because efforts by doctors to innoculate the local citizens are blocked by Muslim religous leaders who call it all interference by infidels and such. The truth of the matter is that there is no way to win in this part of the world - until moderates in these cultures stand up and take control back from the radicals everybody is going to lose. Whether we call it by name or not these people do have democracy - either by outright support or by passive acceptance they agree with the radical elememts of Islam that are taking over these societies.

Think of it this way - did every single German support Hitler? No. Did the citizens as a whole suffer when Germany was defeated during WWII - yes. And this led to the aversion to war that has survived in Germany pretty much until this day. Why? Because the people as a whole - whether they supported Hitler or not, got it beaten into them in no uncertain terms that war is not the answer. I compare this to the typical behavior I see in smokers, drug abusers, philanderers, etc. They never stop their behavior until it does some real undeniable damage to them. Sometimes even then they do not stop. The problem with the Islamic world and poverty, radical militantism, lack of social progress, oppression of women and political/religous minorities, etc. will never stop until the Islamic world as a whole is made to suffer in no uncertain terms from their beliefs. This may sound perverse but in order to solve the problem we will have to let it get worse - we will have to let them come to power and go to war with us - and then we will have to defeat them like we defeated Germany and Japan during WWII - by militarily punishing the Islamic world as a whole to the point where we have unconditional surrender. Only then will other points of view and modes of thinking be able to gain ground and prosper. Nobody wants to hear this but a little bit of reading thru the pages of history will show that it is the only way that real change has ever been made. Slavery took a Civil War to get eradicated in this country. Fascism took WWII and hundreds of millions of lives lost to be defeated. Muslim radicalism will take more than understanding and negotiation to go away. Iran is near to getting the atomic bomb if they don't have it already. The most dangerous game we can play now is denial.
 
Hmmm. Is it the Islamic world that you want to eradicate? Is this like the way that Bin Laden, the actual man responsible for 9/11, and the Taliban were eradicated and taught a lesson? Or, perhaps, were the Muslim radicals taught that if they hide, then eventually the U.S. will turn its gaze away from them.
 
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