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FORD Projects $4.5 BILLION Loss on Electric Vehicles

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
Just the latest in bad news for companies that are betting against, or trying to beat, Tesla. It just doesn't seem to be working out well for them. A week or two ago, VW/Audi group said it was having problems selling many of its EV models and was scaling back. Now Ford seems to be announcing similar news.

My takeaway is not that Tesla is so much better or more available, but more that the EV market is just not very strong and consumer demand for pure Electric Cars is simply not there outside of the more affluent families. Any way you slice it, an EV is simply an expensive purchase. MOST families can NOT afford ANY new vehicle and instead are buying used vehicles. Since the upfront cost of all EVs is higher than an internal combustion or regular hybrid vehicle, working families simply don't consider an EV to be a viable choice.

For the upper classes that actually purchase new vehicles, there is demand, especially in urban/Suburban areas with charging infrastructure, but many EV choices seem to be as second vehicles. I think rising electric rates have also contributed to the fact that running EV versus Hybrid vehicles is no longer much cheaper on a total cost basis over a 5 year time horizon, and in some cases an EV can be more expensive to run, when finance costs, etc are calculated.

Full story at the link below:



Ford Expects to Lose $4.5B on EVs This Year

Automaker Ford estimates its electric vehicle division will lose $4.5 billion this year, $1.5 billion more than it predicted in March.​
Fortune said Ford's revised forecast comes from a sluggish receptiveness by consumers to the new battery-powered vehicles.
So far this year, Ford's EV division has shed nearly $1.8 billion, Fortune reported.​
Ford now also estimates it will reach an annual production rate of 600,000 units a year by 2024, Fortunate noted. Ford had been hoping to hit that number by the end of this year.​
Ford reduced prices on some of its electric cars last week by as much as 17%.​
Ford CEO Jim Farley and Ford can be patient about electric vehicles, due in part to a strong performance in the rest of the company​
Fortune reported that Ford generated $45 billion in revenue last quarter, a 12% increase year on year. The company reported strong growth in its commercial vehicle segment where revenue grew by 22% to hit $15.6 billion.​
Reuters reported that the U.S. government plans to end purchases of gas-powered vehicles by 2035, under an executive order signed by President Joe Biden in 2021, in an effort to lower emissions and promote electric cars. . . The government owns more than 650,000 vehicles and purchases about 50,000 annually. . .​
Fortune noted that while demand for EVs is growing, it's not enough to keep pace with increased production. Fortune said over 90,000 electric cars and trucks are on dealer lots, four times as many as a year ago. . .
 
You mean no-one is buying the BS

indeed. I get quite a tickle out of (for example) Mercedes dumbstuff - saying they will make nothing but EV's in the near future.
there is a place for EVs, a lot of people could use them without issues.
a lot of people can also not use them without major issues . . . so there is that.

I don't fret about any of the proposed "laws" and "policies" making EVs the only choice after x,y,z.
that idiocy will change as reality sets in.

apparently Tesla is being sued, or will be sued-in-the-making, about range claims. real life users reporting cold weather reduces the range by 50% or more.
Tesla's happy face dash estimate of range is also under scrutiny - a bit like VW's DieselGate - intentionally fudged / false numbers for the greater marketing good . . .
 
Were the hell do we get the power to charge them answer that for me Department of Energy and JB?????
This is the big question.

We have growing demand for power. Biden's policies (along with several other Presidents) have been to hobble the power companies, prevent new Nuclear plants (which are essentially ZERO emission and the cleanest + most reliable energy source we have), prevent new Natural Gas plants from being built, etc etc etc All this while draining the Strategic Oil Reserve, by the tune of 40% and raising the gas prices by 100% and turning us into a nation that used to be an energy exporter but now into a nation that relies on communist nations like Venezuela to help us meet our energy needs.

:hammer::bonk::wtf:
 
I know a new f150 lightning is not in my immediate future. All the political stuff aside (because we're dealing with the same type of bs up here), I just checked and the f150 lightning with a regular range can go 370km. The extended battery pack puts it at 480km per full charge.

Here's where it gets interesting. Hook up anything to the back and those numbers get reduced by half. Up in Canada, the starting price for an f150 lightning is 90k. I bought my current 2017 f150 used in 2018 for 38k. 5 years later, it's still worth right around 30k up here. In that time, I've done the brakes and wheel bearings spending less than 1000 in parts. I can buy a lot of fuel and parts for 59k to keep it going before forking out the money for a lightning. And not have to worry about range.

An EV enthusiast will say "just charge it along the way". This is Canada. Northwestern Ontario Canada specifically. In an 8 hour drive between thunder bay and Sault ste Marie, there's exactly one charger in white river about 5 hrs away that's been down since April. See the problem?

I'll give another real life example of why EVs will not be feasible for anyone up here for the immediate future. So we have a seasonal campsite 100km from home exactly halfway to next next community which is a smaller place with less than 1500 people and only one gas station and NO ev chargers. Let's say that I have a long range lightning that can do 480km per charge. Hook up a boat or camper to that and watch the range cut in half. Sure, I can make it to camp and plug it in to charge for the return trip. This exposes the elephant in the room. The 80 year old hydro grid that, under current conditions, leaves us with regular brown outs during the weekend where I can't even plug in my electric golf cart to charge. We often can't use the ac. I have a small 3 gallon air compressor that works fine at home but bring it to camp and the electric motor barely turns over. We also like to go crown land camping with our fifth wheel trailer towing it 3-4hrs and staying in a pit somewhere without hydro. How is that going to work with a lightning? Which brings me to another point. Let's say that in a perfect world, there's no scare of brown outs. And every gas station has an ev charging station. Think about those charging stations. Where are they? Usually tucked in the back corner or the lot where you can only fit one vehicle without anything connected to it. So that means unhooking the trailer in an empty lot somewhere, going to charge it then returning to reconnect to the trailer to travel to the next community 2 hrs away and go through the whole process all over again. That sounds like a great way to travel to me.
 
I know a new f150 lightning is not in my immediate future. All the political stuff aside (because we're dealing with the same type of bs up here), I just checked and the f150 lightning with a regular range can go 370km. The extended battery pack puts it at 480km per full charge.

Here's where it gets interesting. Hook up anything to the back and those numbers get reduced by half. Up in Canada, the starting price for an f150 lightning is 90k. I bought my current 2017 f150 used in 2018 for 38k. 5 years later, it's still worth right around 30k up here. In that time, I've done the brakes and wheel bearings spending less than 1000 in parts. I can buy a lot of fuel and parts for 59k to keep it going before forking out the money for a lightning. And not have to worry about range.

An EV enthusiast will say "just charge it along the way". This is Canada. Northwestern Ontario Canada specifically. In an 8 hour drive between thunder bay and Sault ste Marie, there's exactly one charger in white river about 5 hrs away that's been down since April. See the problem?

I'll give another real life example of why EVs will not be feasible for anyone up here for the immediate future. So we have a seasonal campsite 100km from home exactly halfway to next next community which is a smaller place with less than 1500 people and only one gas station and NO ev chargers. Let's say that I have a long range lightning that can do 480km per charge. Hook up a boat or camper to that and watch the range cut in half. Sure, I can make it to camp and plug it in to charge for the return trip. This exposes the elephant in the room. The 80 year old hydro grid that, under current conditions, leaves us with regular brown outs during the weekend where I can't even plug in my electric golf cart to charge. We often can't use the ac. I have a small 3 gallon air compressor that works fine at home but bring it to camp and the electric motor barely turns over. We also like to go crown land camping with our fifth wheel trailer towing it 3-4hrs and staying in a pit somewhere without hydro. How is that going to work with a lightning? Which brings me to another point. Let's say that in a perfect world, there's no scare of brown outs. And every gas station has an ev charging station. Think about those charging stations. Where are they? Usually tucked in the back corner or the lot where you can only fit one vehicle without anything connected to it. So that means unhooking the trailer in an empty lot somewhere, going to charge it then returning to reconnect to the trailer to travel to the next community 2 hrs away and go through the whole process all over again. That sounds like a great way to travel to me.
Your assuming that your government wants you to continue doing those things like hunting, camping and fishing. Your place is in a 15 minute city where your vehicle isn't even needed.
 
I live in pickup truck country.
Probably 50% of the vehicles on the road are pickups, yet I have not seen a ford lightning.
We get extreme cold, deep snow, and everything is spread out, making it very unfriendly for evs.
 
I live in pickup truck country.
Probably 50% of the vehicles on the road are pickups, yet I have not seen a ford lightning.
We get extreme cold, deep snow, and everything is spread out, making it very unfriendly for evs.
I don't think I've ever seen one of them either. I've occasionally seen the EV Rivian pick up trucks, but always in the suburbs or city of Chicago. Never see them out in the rural areas. Pretty much same applies to Tesla cars and other pure electrics. Not where I live, but often in the Chicago metroplex. Honestly I couldn't even tell you where there is a charging location other than on the Indiana Toll Road at the Oasis stops.

I'd gladly buy a hybrid. Might even buy a "Plug In Hybrid" that runs a limited number of miles on battery only. But I'm clearly not looking for a pure EV. I can see city dwellers buying them. Or suburban folks as a secondary vehicle. But out in the rural lands it just is not an option. . . and at the price premium charged, I just don't see the value. Maybe if I had a solar roof, maybe if I had my own Level 2 charger, connected to a solar roof . . . maybe if I was a vegan?
 
I went from living in the country, to really living in the country when I moved in March.
It would make even less sense for me to have an ev now out here on the farm.
 
This is the big question.

We have growing demand for power. Biden's policies (along with several other Presidents) have been to hobble the power companies, prevent new Nuclear plants (which are essentially ZERO emission and the cleanest + most reliable energy source we have), prevent new Natural Gas plants from being built, etc etc etc All this while draining the Strategic Oil Reserve, by the tune of 40% and raising the gas prices by 100% and turning us into a nation that used to be an energy exporter but now into a nation that relies on communist nations like Venezuela to help us meet our energy needs.

:hammer::bonk::wtf:
Bechtel just canceled a Gas generating plant near us we have the gas in the area and its not leaving :( and my royalties are 5% of for the royalties month last year. Thanks Joe your cutting in to my Retirement plan:UtOh2:
 
Well, here's a thought. I recommend that Ford hire Dylan Mulvaney to dress up like Barbie and drive around in an electric truck drinking Bud Light in a rainbow colored can. That will make sales pickup a bit. :lmao: :lmao:

They could just make the only paint option for all Lightnings be a rainbow paint scheme.
 
I have never seen a charging station. I have heard there are two in the state I live in. I haven't seen them yet.
 
there's a couple - https://chargefinder.com seems most comprehensive, but I'm still gassing so can't speak to it's 'reliability'
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