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Fabrication & welding question (roof rack construction)

Melensdad

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
I'm in the early design phases of a roof rack for my Snow Trac. I see two very common materials used. Round bar stock of about 1/2" diameter and 1" square tube. All of the roof racks I see made with square tube have round corners.

How do you bend square hollow tube without crimping/collapsing the tube?

It would seem that round bar stock would be easier to build with, but I sort of like the look of the square tube, and if I mount aux lights on the front and back of the roof rack then the tube could be used to conceal the wires.
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

B_Skurka said:
How do you bend square hollow tube without crimping/collapsing the tube?
Click to expand...

With a hydraulic square tubing bender of course! :pat:

Not a big deal really. A quick search in your local business directory should turn up someone wh can do the bending for you. You are a member (or lurker) over at Hobarts forum, I believe I have seen several members from there who are local to you who may be willing to help.

Or you could just buy your own next time Mrs_B is out of town. :whistle:
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

Why not have square corners, makes it far easier to do, fit things in, etc, etc, just plain easier, but it doesnt look quite as good. Just cut the ends to 45 degrees and weld.

Otherwise you gunna need a tubing bender, you might get away with a manual one for that size tubing. I beleive also if you fill the tube woth sand and then bend it it does not break out of shape.

Basically, bending squarre tube is tricky, without the right equipment, so I would think about just making square corners, not sure how keen you are on making everything just so.

(This is IMO, your milage may vary)

PS, dont bother with round bar, hard to get the joints to look good, IMO again.
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

Mith said:
I beleive also if you fill the tube woth sand and then bend it it does not break out of shape.

Basically, bending squarre tube is tricky, without the right equipment, so I would think about just making square corners, not sure how keen you are on making everything just so.
Click to expand...
When it comes to toys I get pretty anal.
I actually wondered if I inserted a stout spring if that would hold the square tube into shape while bending and then I could slide the spring out? But sand, if packed, should do the trick too.


Mith said:
PS, dont bother with round bar, hard to get the joints to look good, IMO again.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you on the looks issue, but the one thing that keeps bringing me back to round stock is that the side racks of the Snow Trac are made with round bar stock. So a roof rack of round stock would match the side racks if I used the round bar stock, but would not look as nice as if square tube stock was used.

DaveNay said:
Or you could just buy your own next time Mrs_B is out of town.
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No trips planned in the near future. Next time she goes out of town will be "spring break" and I'm not sure I can hold out that long!
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

Bob,

How about rails like what's on a boat or something like using these?
http://www.keelite.com/us/index.html
I think the gold colored pipe is just for illustration and you would normally use aluminum or steel
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

Bob, seeming as you like to keep things spot on it would probably be best to use bar, or something round atleast.

The only problem I can see with bar is that it would be hard to join an end of the bar to the side, to join the posts to the rails if you like. Apart from cutting a notch in the end and welding it in then grinding to make it look nice I think that might be the hard bit, other than that I shouldnt think it would be too hard to do, much easier than square tubing. Just the joining problem.

Or how about pipe? you might need to use slightly bigger pipe to make it easier to work with. For anything you need to know about working with pipe you need to see Woughtn' Harv from TBN.

Might be worth trying to bend the tube by sand packing it or the spring method. if you do be sure to post the results here, it would be interesting to see how it works out. I was planning to make a ROPS that would be better with bend tube rather than welded joints, just need to work out how to do it.
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

For a simple hand operated method, you could pick up one of these manual benders. Probably even falls into the "just because I want it" price range.

144208_lg.jpg
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

DaveNay said:
For a simple hand operated method, you could pick up one of these manual benders. Probably even falls into the "just because I want it" price range.
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Or any of the other 50 that are in that same section of northerntool.
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

Ok let me ask a total newbie question since many of you have far more experience than I do.

I looked at some of the other benders on Northern Tool's site and saw a CONDUIT bender. Can you weld conduit?

It would seem to me that conduit might make a great rack of reasonable capacity, especially if it was about 5/8" or 3/4" and it would roughly match the bar stock side rails, and being hollow I could run wire inside of it to the lights I want to mount up there.

Thoughts?

BTW, I have a gift certificate for Home Depot that I got from my employees for Christmas so I think I may head over there later today if you guys think it makes sense.
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

Well an interesting turn of events. . . since nobody answered my "can you weld conduit" question in a timely manner I called my neighbor who has a machine shop. His welding guy answered the phone! I asked, he said "Yes . . . but" and then told me that he has a bunch of 1" tube that he was going to use for a race car project they were working on. The project got cancelled and now he has material he is willing to part with at an exceptional price. I would think 1" tube would be a good maximum size for the rack. He's going to lend me a bender too!

Now I just need to find the time to draw up a real design and work on it!
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

B_Skurka said:
I looked at some of the other benders on Northern Tool's site and saw a CONDUIT bender. Can you weld conduit?
Click to expand...

UGGGHHH!!! Conduit is galvanized. Fumes from welding galvanized metal are really really nasty. I would avoid conduit for this reason. It is tempting because of the price, but I think you would be better off with welded tube. There is no need to go to DOM (drawn over mandrel) a.k.a. seamless, because this is not a structural member.

Although, you might want to talk to your finisher (plater, painter) and see what is best for him to work with. DOM might have a cleaner finish. I guarantee he will also say that he won't want to work with galvanized.
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

DaveNay said:
UGGGHHH!!! Conduit is galvanized. Fumes from welding galvanized metal are really really nasty. I would avoid conduit for this reason. It is tempting because of the price
Click to expand...

Pretty much the answer I got, plus it is a very weak metal, but he said if you have to weld with it, the best option is to sand off the galvanized finish.

DaveNay said:
Although, you might want to talk to your finisher (plater, painter) and see what is best for him to work with.
Click to expand...

So I looked myself in the mirror and asked the question. I got a totally dumbfounded look from myself. :whistle:
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

Bob,

What you really want is a tubing bender from JD Squared, more specifically the Model 3. The bender is relatively inexpensive but it's the dies that really raise the cost. This is the bender that is recommended by almost everyone on any of the welding and/or fab forums.

Several places sell this bender but here is a link to the manufacturer direct site. Btw, it is COMPLETELY Made in the USA.

http://www.jd2.com/
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

That Tube Notcher sure looks like the right tool for making a good clean connection too!
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

Well I just stopped in at my friend's machine shop. He has about 400' of square bar stock, 9/16th or something like that. I can have it for free. Its left over from another project that they completed and has been long ago paid for. I know I don't need anything close to that amount of steel, but I'm going to take what I need after I measure things up and figure out my needs.
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

B_Skurka said:
Well I just stopped in at my friend's machine shop. He has about 400' of square bar stock, 9/16th or something like that. I can have it for free. Its left over from another project that they completed and has been long ago paid for. I know I don't need anything close to that amount of steel, but I'm going to take what I need after I measure things up and figure out my needs.
Click to expand...

Dang Bob, it must be nice to have those kind of friends. Usually if I have a friend offer something like that, he has this small welding project he needs me to do in exchange. You know, like he ripped a 2 yard bucket in half on his excavator and needs me to fix it on location; tonight, in the dark, in the rain, 35 degrees etc. :(

P.S. As you may recall from some pics you've seen, I love building stuff out of square tubing. Bar stock would be just that much easier to bend. I've gotten fairly proficient with bending all sorts of tubing with my blacksmith tools. With just the right amount of heat and bending and hammering etc., it works out nicely. I still need to get you a pic of the wire laying machine I made that goes on my tractor. I did quite a bit of tube bending on that. It must work fine because an in-law has had it for a week now and I have two others who helped him use it who now want to borrow it. I just hope I get it back.
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question

Well he usually just gives me stuff so he can come over and make fun of me while I do whatever it is I want to do. He just pulls up a lawn chair and sits there and watches, with a cooler of Mike's Hard Lemonade by his side. Then, at some point, he bails me out when I get in over my head because he is a master machinist and a decent welder, and he employs a couple very skilled welders, anything I can do, he can do/get done much much better. I think he considers it a form of entertainment since he doesn't watch too much TV.
 
Re: Fabrication & welding question (Roof Rack construction on my Snow Trac)

Well I have pretty much settled on the design of the roof rack I want to build. It will be modeled after a military roof rack that is pictured below. Mine will not extend as far farward as the one in the photo. I'd like it set back few inches so I can put a moveable spotlight up on the roof, so the rack would be shortened to accomodate the spotlight.

Because of the availability of free solid square stock, that is very likely what I will be using for construction. To be more accurate, I should use round bar stock, but it is pretty hard to pass up free material.

I will probably add a couple tabs on the lower front bar and at least one on the rear for aux lighting. You don't realize how helpful it is to have a rear floodlight for backing up at night . . . until you don't have one! So a good rear flood will be a necessary addition.

Any tips on how to attach it to the roof gutters?
 

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Re: Fabrication & welding question

B_Skurka said:
I looked at some of the other benders on Northern Tool's site and saw a CONDUIT bender. Can you weld conduit?
Click to expand...

Bob, I know you have already moved beyond considering galvanized conduit for your roof project, but I wanted to post a link to this article showing the worst possible outcome when dealing with galvanized metals.

:(
 
I'd love to see some close up photos of some Snow Tracs that have roof racks!
 
Got some pic of a roof rack on Snow Trac
 

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Villi - There's a man from Indiana who will be coming to visit you soon.

Be careful he may try to kiss you for posting these pictures. ;)
 
Besides seeing some awesome pics of incredibly cool vehicles, did anyone else notice something that struck me as odd? It sure looked like there was a lot of snow in the pictures. You know, like it would be cold. Right? In several pics the guys are wearing short sleeve T shirts! :eek: They must grow 'em tuff there!!

I guess Bob would just fit right in with his shirts of choice. :thumb:
 
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