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Drag size question

redsqwrl

redsqwrl

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I have never pulled a drag with a Groomer of any sort. I however am not a complete idiot. I am looking to purchase a 8'6" by 20+' six blade snowmobile trail drag. (I lifted a photo of another one from the Web)

My pulling equipment is a 2.4L mercedes powered Bombi with snow tracks.

and/or

A full bodied imp stock V-4 wide track.

I feel pretty confident the Bombi will handle the drag with some careful technique. as that is what it did in maine where it came from.

I am wondering if the drag is a bit big for the imp. The imp was advertised in its original sales literature as a Snow package and is currently outfitted with a Fold up type Tracksetter for X-country skiing. ( valley engineered front Blade) I am in WI and our snow events are not massive but we do get a bit of snow so the drag will be as full as I let it get. the Track setter does not seem like it will be effective flattening out the trail as it is short relative to the machine (imp) length.

I am going to proceed with a Hitch steer and want to make sure I am not wasting my time by fitting it to the IMP if the general consensus is that a smaller drag might be better.

We ( our club) only have 33 miles of funded trail here at home, it is quite flat and open.
Up at the cottage I have unlimited miles of trail, but the terrain is tighter and somewhat hilly.

I am trying to avoid failure from ignorance. What do you know.

mike
 

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Maybe I am wrong, but that is quite a lot of groomer for a Bombi. I have never run one but the local ski hill has a couple of them. Our club uses the 252 Ski Dozer, and our drag is no bigger, but is more box scraper like, with a large holding area in the front and a single adjustable balde behind. (Valley Equptment drag) We are able to "tow" a good size load of snow with 85Hp Perkins diesel. And put it right where we want it. Just from being around the bombi I get the feeling the Ski Dozer is roughly twice the machine that a Bombi is in size and weight, and contact area of the tracks. Horsepower doesn't really enter in as it is mass and gearing and contact area of the tracks that matter....You need these to put the horse power down...

Cann't say for the Imp don't know much about them, but I think I would want a minimum of 8,000 lbs and 90 hp ahead of this one for many years of trouble free use. Over load any tractor and it will not last nearly as long. Buy big and work it less hard for longer life. I have heard that these arrow head drags pull pretty hard, by the way...

JMHO, Kirk
 
Thanks, The fact that it pulls hard might explain the cheap price.....

I figured I could remove some blades or narrow it up easy enough. Grooming SMTrails is only one of my intended uses.

I really did not want to secure a bigger cat as I am hoping it use it for other purpose's..... Getting into the cabin, Ice fishing, timber cruising in the U.P. of MI. I looked at a SV 200 and I agree it is quite a bit more machine.

Now I am starting to see why so many of the visitors here have multiple cats.

I may need to groom the driveway a few times to *sharpen* the drag up a bit. that should gauge turning ability and power required. Is gravel similar to snow? Both machines turn real easy in gravel compared to the lawn.

From reading past threads I am sure some of you are laughing.... Please don't hold back share your opinion.
 
Old Rule of thumb that we use for Western grooming. Minn.20 engine horse power per 1 ft width of groomer or drag.. example 8' groomer =160 HP This may help but could be different in your location The more HP The better
 
Even out here in the hilly parts Midwest that would work well, but we probably could get by with 15 hp pretty easy in my area as we are pretty flat. I think the old 252 is pretty strong for 85Hp. It is mechanical drive like your Bombi. I think you need a little more juice per foot of groomer for a hydrostatic drive cat.

In the end your cat will pull at the draw bar about 85% of what it weighs. (drag+ snow in it)Maybe a bit more in some conditions, less in others.

Regards, Kirk
 
I have groomed as a contractor for 20 years now and learned as I went. I started with a Bombi and thought it was a great machine at the time but would only consider using one to groom now if the trail only had light use and minimal hills. The one thing on drag size I would also recommend is having one slightly narrower than the Bombi's width and that goes for other cats as well. The longer the better but 20' is way too long for the Bombie IMO. One drag I have is a 8.5 wide X 16' long Mogul Master that is very simular to the Arrow you have pictured. It can and does make a Pisten Bully 200hp grunt and strain in deep snow (2' fresh) on steep hills and tight turns. The Bombie would hardly pull it out of the yard, not only from lack of power but lack of traction. Actually I always lost traction first with the stock 1.6L engine in the Bombie so I don't think more HP will gain you much.

The V-4 Imp is basically in the same class as the Bombie and You could expect the same results. The front blade, if set up properly will greatly improve any snowcats grooming abilities as will the hitch steer for the ones with a controlled differential.
 
85% of total weight is very understandable. That drag is going to be a handful.

The Bombi is a 2.4L diesel with a 4 spd auto trans..... but it is still in a light weight vehicle.

The V-4 has plenty of gears I am sure I can find one that will pull but again I am only 2400# ish.

Thanks a bunch for the input. I am pretty sure I am going to shorten and narrow a perfectly good drag. Asking price is $2000 and I don't think I can buy the steel and HYD parts for that.

Mike
 
Yes, I just found it from another member via PM. and also a melens dad post from 2007 sending another member there.

Thanks again for the input. (before I start chopping) I may resell the drag or work a trade if a ram steer Bombi setup is to be found.
 
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