• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

DMC 1450 Broken Track Cleats

6

69_Tele

New member
Greetings everyone, I'm new to this forum, and to cat maintenance/upkeep in general. I was recently tabbed as the new cat guy at the TV station where I work. We have a 1980 DMC 1450, it's a rugged work machine that gets to our transmitter site over a mix of mud, asphalt, and snow (sometimes fresh powder, sometimes thawed/frozen. I don't have many notes, or info, on what was done to this cat over the years. I did notice first thing, I have a lot of damage on the passenger side. I had two thrashed tires on the passenger side, replaced with polyfill, I have 6 cleats with visible cracks, one that is snapped in half, hanging on by bolts, and another cleat with the entire wheel guide and cleat section underneath missing. But all of this on the passenger side, driver side track/cleats appear to be in decent shape. I know driving/turning on asphalt can wreak havoc on cleats, but I would expect similar issues on the driver side if this was the sole cause. The chief mentioned he noticed the cat pulling to the left. Could my braking bands need to be adjusted? or could track tension be out of whack?

One last question, what would be the reason for not offsetting the cleats and running them the entire width of the track, like on this thing?

Thanks a lot for all the great tips and advice on this forum, I've been searching all around here trying to educate myself on these amazing machines that bring forth as much fun as the do profanity riddled frustrations.

Yeah, the missing cleat in the pic is the one that snapped in half. I removed it earlier today.
 

Attachments

  • DMC1450-2.jpg
    DMC1450-2.jpg
    1.8 MB · Views: 174
  • DMC1450-1.jpg
    DMC1450-1.jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 173
Those are "J " Grousers....Yes..They are on backwards.....
Somebody has assembled those tracks from parts and pieces....
The 1450 was not usually seen with the heavy "J" grousers.

The "Slide stops" are normally found on inside and outside with the grousers in a staggered pattern....

Usually the outer edges of the grousers are tapered to help stop the tracks from digging in when on hard surfaces (Dirt and such)

Normally these cats will have 4 belts BUT NOT ALWAYS .....Again this seems to indicate that these tracks are put together from parts and pieces
How wide are the grousers ???? These look like 43" heavy grousers that are found on the big machines.
The track belts are offset too....The grousers were meant to be staggered across 4 belts.....and in your pics it shows that the tire guides are close to the inner belt with a bit more distance between the guide and the outside belt

The grousers are the later style with the reinforcing piece at the slide stop (A good thing)

The tire guides are the 2nd generation of that type...

At this late date though....anything that is available can and will be used to keep these cats running....

The piccy is one of the tracks for my 2100.

The "J" GROUSERS were made in various heights from the belt to the top edge

Looking at the offset ...the tracks may not be able to be turned around as the belt may hit the tub....

BUT....ALL THIS SAID....These tracks will be fine.....Just scare up parts and pieces and repair what you have.
Belts appear to be in good shape.

Pulling may well be due to one track being too tight.
A band that's too tight can cause drag on the drum and make the machine pull one way when going straight.

Does this machine have the OC 12 DIFFY ???

You want to be sure that the bands are not dragging....

Have you looked at the condition of the bands ?????

BAND ADJUSTMENT
With the cat shut off and steering levers in their normal forward position.

TIGHTEN THE ADJUSTING NUT AT THE LEVER ON THE FRONT OF THE DIIFY WHERE THE SLAVE CYLINDER CONNECTS TO 200 INCH POUNDS (USE INCH POUND TORQUE WRENCH ONLY) THEN BACK THE NUT OFF 1-1/2 TURNS.

IF you have not inspected the bands...DO SO

Badly worn bands can and will damage the drums ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$) A good time to change the oil in the diffy too.
A good 30 wt oil designed for wet band/clutch use is fine

OC-12 DIFFERENTIAL

OIL

​

Use a TO-4 30W oil in the rear axle assembly..



This is a common “Tractor Fluid” and available at NAPA



In a pinch (Out in the sticks) just about any engine oil will get ya home 30W, 40W, 15-40, and even ATF will get ya in...

DO NOT USE HEAVY GEAR LUBE SUCH AS IS USED IN CAR AND TRUCK DIFFY'S
 

Attachments

  • MT HOOD TRACKS1.jpg
    MT HOOD TRACKS1.jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 111
Last edited:
Thank you, Snowy Rivers and PJL, great info and advice here. The grousers on this machine are 30" and it does have the OC12 diff. Your take on the tracks and grousers are super helpful, encouraging to. I do plan on changing the differential oil here in a few weeks. I got a few more cracked grousers to get off, and get replaced...so back to work. Thanks fellas
 
Looked at the grousers on my 2100
I think that your grousers are the long "J " grousers like mine that have been cut down...
The inside end on the RH side of the cat do not have a tapered end.....I suspect these were cut off....
 
Snowy, I think you are right. These very well could have been cut down to fit the size needed at the time. I think that is going to be the option I'm gonna have to go with to replace some of these for now. Until I got ambitious down the road and try to build new tracks for this thing.
 
Like daddy always told me...."If it ain't broke....don't fix it"

None of this stuff is cheap to buy....and harder still to scare up at times

Took me two years to finally wrangle a deal to get two complete tracks for my build.
The stuff was pretty rough, belts were junk.....but I ended up with enough good parts to build two tracks.

Once the grousers get broken or seriously mangled.....pretty much DOA
My tracks have 72 grousers on each....I ended up (Out of 3 tracks) with about 15 or so junkers.
The tire guides are also prone to breakage..
Thiokol used 3 different designs.
I call them First, second and third design.
Yours (The ones I can see in the piccy) are second design...

Piccy....Orange one is first design (The outer leg would crack at the weld)
Center two are second design (Outer leg is wider and has a better and stronger welded area)
Herky one on the end is a third design....Used on later Hydrostatic cats 3700 and likely others
I have not seen any of the heavy ones broken....Not that they can't be...

Welding these is a no go....The material will crack and break again....Not sure what the grousers are made of, but they are harder than a whores heart....They can be drilled using either Cobalt or carbide drills.
 

Attachments

  • Guide7.jpg
    Guide7.jpg
    368.8 KB · Views: 112
First, Welcome to the forum!

As others have pointed out, the grousers are installed backward. As I understand it, Thiokol/DMC made grousers from different thickness steel for different applications and the heavier duty grousers were also taller, I believe and Snowy Rivers' comments agree with this.

Belt configuration of two per side is correct.

I'm not sure why someone would want heavy duty, cut-down grousers on a lightweight machine? And I don't know why one would want end plates on every grouser?

If you're looking for new grousers, I think Dan Gates at Snowcat Service in SLC can supply them. I believe he has a decent supply of parts, too. You might pick his brain on your grouser setup.

It would be some ass-pain, but you could split the tracks, turn the tracks around and reinstall them to get the grouser orientation correct.

Do you have a manual and track jacks?
 
The answer about the size of the grousers
Parts are getting harder to find all the time....plus the cost of good parts.

Likely some energetic soul grabbed what they could find at a price they were happy to pay and went to work....

Other than the fact that the grousers are on backwards ...the tracks look great....

I have encountered many wonder whats in my search for parts to build on my 2100.
Adapt, modify, make work, build your own....all the above.

Thiokol used as much off the shelf tech as they could .....once they went away in 1980 the supply of non off the shelf stuff has dwindled to a relatively small supply.
No worries.
MAKE IT WORK with whats available.
When you find good p[arts out in the wild and crazy world...Ya grab them and hoard them....
 
Tucker, Snowy thank you for your insight and advice. I really appreciate this community and the valuable info and adviceIl you all share.

I am lucky enough to have the manual and two sets of track jacks! The station I work at bought this cat brand new in 79/80. I'm gonna have a conversation today with the original chief who bought this and pick his brain on what work he remembers doing...and if he was the one that set these tracks like this and why.
 
I may can answer BFT's why heavy cut down on light weight cat: Probably the same reason I like my heavy grousers. Having to travel on roads with no or not enough snow. Getting up to some of my comm sites, I would get to the point I couldn't trailer. but just over that ridge it was back to 3-5 miles of gravel before I get back into snow. The weight is meant to be carried on the belts not on the blades and the normal grousers get all bendy running on rocks
 
Good point......
I can remember a few times heading to the mountain for spring snowmobiling we reached snow nearly 5 feet deep....Then around to the south/west side of the hills.....BARE FOR A LONG WAYS....DUSTY TOO... :lmao:

Screaming along with dust and gravel for a long ways sucks.

I still believe that the kitty needed new shoes and parts were a tough go....and they used what they could get...

The big J grousers are sure a lot tougher than many of the smaller/lighter grousers used on the Sprytes and Imps.

Maybe the truth of the matter can be found out ....


My 2100 tracks are a hodge podge of several bits and pieces...

All three tire guide designs mixed in on all the tracks I got.

A few different grousers on one.

One track had a couple aluminum grousers..... WELL THRASHED
 
I talked with the old chief yesterday, and he couldn't remember ever having the tracks replaced, but he admitted in his 88 years he has forgotten a thing or two:)(y). He did buy the DMC brand new, the wide-track version, and a place in Reno would come pick it up for summer service. Which is a haul, I'm down in SoCal, Bakersfield, CA. They may have modified this track setup.

I think both Tucker and Cider are correct here, this cat is old, and our mountain conditions are like what both you describe. We use this machine from about mid-November to beginning of April. And we 4x4 a good chunk of the trip, but there is always this 5 or 6 mile section on the back side of Breckenridge mountain that stays shaded and you can go from asphalt to several feet of snow just turning the bend, and then mud when we get onto the dirt road.

Has anyone ever considered using T-bolts, like what you would use on old Ford rear end to install grousers? I had a friend who builds hot-rods, and he suggested using them to install new ones. Theoretically, the head will spin/lock in the channel, and all you need is to get the nut on the other side. They are pricey, if you're doing a whole track.
 
Cidertom said:
I may can answer BFT's why heavy cut down on light weight cat: Probably the same reason I like my heavy grousers. Having to travel on roads with no or not enough snow. Getting up to some of my comm sites, I would get to the point I couldn't trailer. but just over that ridge it was back to 3-5 miles of gravel before I get back into snow. The weight is meant to be carried on the belts not on the blades and the normal grousers get all bendy running on rocks
Click to expand...
Thanks CiderTom,

That makes perfect sense. I would be cringing driving such a distance over gravel, but you really didn't have other options. Certainly thinner steel, while weighing less, would bend/break more easily and wear faster.

Those conditions seem well suited to a track system like Tucker's rubber Terra Tracks, but they have their drawbacks too.
 
The heavy "J" grousers are pretty herky....these will tolerate more abuse than many designs.
Spinning the tracks is tough on things though....
 
little late to the party, but the grousers look legit thickness to me, I would be willing to bet the cat was built that way, ( all long ones ) given the varying nature of its intended use. there was a terra grouser available, and I bet someone soiled their pants and decided that this build would be better on dirt and still perform in snow. look at photo 2 in post number one. the wear on the grousers is as expected. ( look at wheel guide to leading edge) its possible that it was rebuilt this way at a later date.

as a new cat guy, I would split the tracks, service the wheel bearings, and put the pass side track onto the drivers side.
A) You learn the bearing set up and condition of the tires in the fun season.
B) you will be prepared to the self recovery in the field when and if you need to help a tucker out.

Enjoy the new assingment,

$.02 worth
 
redsqwrl said:
little late to the party, but the grousers look legit thickness to me, I would be willing to bet the cat was built that way, ( all long ones ) given the varying nature of its intended use. there was a terra grouser available, and I bet someone soiled their pants and decided that this build would be better on dirt and still perform in snow. look at photo 2 in post number one. the wear on the grousers is as expected. ( look at wheel guide to leading edge) its possible that it was rebuilt this way at a later date.

as a new cat guy, I would split the tracks, service the wheel bearings, and put the pass side track onto the drivers side.
A) You learn the bearing set up and condition of the tires in the fun season.
B) you will be prepared to the self recovery in the field when and if you need to help a tucker out.

Enjoy the new assingment,

$.02 worth
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice redsqwrl! I replaced bearings, along with a couple of tires. I do need to split the tracks and swap sides, in do time. My biggest issue right now is finding long (30 inch) grousers for this thing. The hunt continues.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top