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Cold hydraulic pump dead heading?

northerndave

northerndave

Member
hello all, I've been messing with my bombardier ski dozer 252 gasser a little bit thes past few days which have been very cold days 20 degrees below zero actually.

I've started the machine a couple of times in this bitter cold, once again this morning. It's very cold so it starts stiff, once it fires and begins to idle (fully choked) it seems like it runs nice for a few seconds then the belt driven hydraulic pump starts making a lot of noise and it seems to be putting a load on the engine.

Do you think the pump is dead heading?

Or maybe my filter is restricting flow?

It doesn't do this unless it's bitter cold.

But, I kind of need it to work in "bitter cold"

Any feedback or ideas much appreciated.

Dave
 
How long have you let it run? Does the pump get hot at all? And do any of the Hydrolics functions work while the engine is running?
 
Water frozen in the hydraulic filter would be my first thought. It will let oil pass till it freezes and expands.
 
Have you checked to see if the fluid is "foaming" or milky white? Kind of sounds like it might have moisture in it to me. :unsure:
 
Yes the dozer blade will lift, although I didn't let it run long enough to try it this morning. yesterday when I started the engine cold I did lift the dozer blade while the pump was making noise .

I wonder if I need to change the return filter? I think it is supposed to have a 33 micron filter. I'm trying to find a correct filter part number for it, uncertain if it may have the wrong spin on filter currently? possibly too tight (small micron) of a filter?
 
When I look inside the reservor tank with a flashlight it doesn't look milky.

I dumped some "hytran" typle fluid in there yesterday as it seemed the tank was a bit low.

I'm hoping that would be a suitable fluid to use.
 
I think it looks like the WIX 51553 would be the correct filter. I'm picking up a new battery on my way home today so I'll see if I can find that filter as well.
 
I would look at putting in a lighter grade oil also. I know there is a 30 wt hydraulic oil available. hydraulic oil for summer use in in the 56 wt. Possibly the use of a synthetic oil would be best. I have a wheel loader that I use auto trans oil in the hydraulic system in the winter. The correct filter should also have a bypass valve for when the oil is cold and cannot flow through the screen. Possibly you just need a new belt that runs the pump and/or tightening.
 
i would certainly suggest amz oil synthetic hydraulic oil in the system but i don't think it's a filter problem most filters are on the return side more likely a relief valve problem don't puh it too far as i had a relief hose get pinched off on my vickers snow plow pump and it split the housing wide open
 
Well I changed the filter, it had a 25 micron and the specs call for a 33.

Not sure that would make much difference.

I started it cold again Saturday morning and just let it run, the pump was still groaning after 10 minutes but it was definately quieting down.

Lighter oil like transmission fluid would probably help but I don't think it's going to pose a problem in my normal use.

Especially since we don't have any G'damn snow.

:(
 
Our now sitting 252D club groomer is sitting as well......No damn snow either...

In very cold temps it makes hydrolic pump noises as well. To date we simply let it run for 10-15 minutes before taking it to the trails. Farm tractors make a racket as well, but over the years we have never had a problem related to this situation. I'd say just let it warm up at say 1,200 rpm, after a minute or two at idle after start up.

J20C or John Deere torque guard is 20W oil, and we use it in the hydrolics as well as the rear end. I sure wouldn't use anything lighter, especially in the rear end.

Regards, Kirk
 
I've never tried synthetic hydraulic fluid but it can only help. A few years back I started up my ASV loader one morning to blow snow at about -15º F. With the engine idling, I heard a high-pitched whistling coming from the rear of the machine. I turned to see hydraulic fluid shooting out from the return filter mount. The increased viscosity of the cold fluid caused the O-ring on the filter to blow out. What a mess. Higher viscosity translates into higher system pressure which can damage parts of the circuit designed for low pressure. Now, I slap a magnetic oil pan heater on the bottom of the hydraulic tank and haven't had any more problems.
 
amz oil makes a kille synthetic oil the nois you are hearing is the relief valve slapping hard and eventualy damage to the spring or housing could happpen so going to a lighter fluid if it will operate everything when warm is not a bad idea also also pan heaters are good to by far the best i have used here in the arctic has been synthetics we now have switched from amz oil to chevron still synthetic i would guess the amz oil might be more available where you are
 
Thanks for all the ideas and input guys, I'll be shopping around for some synth oil, looks like 6 gallons will do.

Gonna be a job getting it drained completely though, cylinders and all.....
 
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