Bombardier ring and pinion

[pixie]

I'm on a mission. I need a ring and pinion for my mid 50's J5 Bombardier.
I believe that Muskegs had the same differential. I know of two places to get it but I'm sure that it was used in some other type of machine and it might cost less if it was , say, a Massey Ferguson or Case part.
So, I'm asking for suggestions for a tractor dealer that can look things up by part number and not the brand. Or maybe you know of a piece of equipment with a similar differential.

The numbers on the ring say "jii made in usa 1 62 M493-C " There is a funny symbol like a verticle dogbone at the beginning of the numbers.

Thanks for any help

 

[King of Obsolete]

i'll ask my buddy, he has just finished his j5. note he widen the cab so the wife and kids can go along too, LOL

thansk

 

[mtntopper]

Pixie,
Call Brad at Minnesota Outdoor Sport Specialties. I think he may have several used gear units available. He recently had a bunch of sidewalk plows and other Bombardier machines to part out or sell which may use the same ring and pinion. Good luck, hope this helps....

Brad's Phone Number: 218-828-7876
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Brainerd, Mn. 56401[/FONT]

 

[pixie]

King o O, That J5 sure looks warm and cozy.... most importantly, it's RUNNING !!!! Mine was running when it got here and things have gone downhill from there .....

Thanks, mtntopper. Brad was one of the people I was sure would have one.

Between the bad ring/pinion and the banged up and leaky housing I'm pretty discouraged. I know about an old ag sprayer with hydraulic drive for sale and I'm enjoying the fantasy of putting the pump and drives in this machine. It would surely cost more and probably be more work but it's fun to think about

 

[King of Obsolete]

pixie, my buddy darcy banged his head a few time on the J5 this past summer. bolt it together and take it for a test drive then inbolt it and fix it. he had a very hard time getting parts in canada. lots of phone calls but he got it done. he did everything on it with no budget (he doesn't have a full time job, just seasonally work)
the heater is from a bus and it has 3 setting on it. OFF, HOT and HOTTER, LOL

here are some more pictures to tease you. also will be passing brad's number around to the out J5 boys up here.


thansk

 

[pixie]

You are a wicked tease, King o O !!!! Not just the running J5 but the snow and to top it all off, the J5 is my favorite color !!

I got some more numbers off a rusty one. 35 6 I think this is the # of teeth on the ring and pinion which makes it a 5.83 to 1 ratio. There were a bunch more #s on that one. The only # they have in common is M493C

 

[J5 Bombardier]

Hi Pixie
Sidewalk plows (SW48) seem to be the most plentiful Bombardier around for suspension and diff parts. The dealers up here are stripping them down , a used diff assembly was around $2000.00 this summer.
Just how bad are the gears ? , Teeth broken off or pitting from condensation. Usually the pinion is the one to chip and fail out of the two, the matched set rule doesn't need to apply to these old slow machines if only one of them needs replacing. The Muskeg I'm restoring has 9 teeth on the pinion so there are a couple of different ratios . Smile, it will be great when finished ! J5 Bombardier

 

[jaybe_2]

Pixie I have 2 at my shop RIGHT HERE IN NH. They are out of my groomer,I put in a reman. One is junk and just for parts the other is complete.

 

[pixie]

Jaybe2, I sent you a message

Thanks for the encouragement, J5 . The outside cornors of the ring are chipped and there is some pitting. If I'm going to take it apart enough to replace the pinion bearings , which is what it really needs, then I might as well put a good ring set in.

I haven't cut it out of the machine yet.... I'm dreading that. I'm also dreading cutting the side tub 1/4" plate enough to weld in a piece of metal to hold the oil in Might have to get a real welder person to do that !!!

 

[Eric L]

The outside cornors of the ring are chipped and there is some pitting. If I'm going to take it apart enough to replace the pinion bearings , which is what it really needs, then I might as well put a good ring set in.

I bet it'll be fine...ask me how I know...

I haven't cut it out of the machine yet.... I'm dreading that. I'm also dreading cutting the side tub 1/4" plate enough to weld in a piece of metal to hold the oil in Might have to get a real welder person to do that !!!

Huh? You're telling me an O/A torch is required to rebuild the rear diff... Something I'm not getting here...

Eric

 

[mbsieg]

I bet it'll be fine...ask me how I know...



Huh? You're telling me an O/A torch is required to rebuild the rear diff... Something I'm not getting here...

Eric

I would like to know!!!!!!

 

[pixie]

Check out the first picture. The diff is mounted to the verticle plate at the top left. It's welded in at the cornors !!!

I'll get you a close up tomorrow.

I was going to cut it with an abrasive wheel.

Maybe I'll use this gear set again. I still need another one for the second J5 ...

 

[Eric L]

While it may be welded in... I"m not understanding why it needs to come out for rebuild...unless its just the lesser of two evils (easier to cut it out than to deal with access issues).

Edit: is the carrier welded in?

I would like to know!!!!!

I've torn down plenty of diffs with damage that was not known 'till opened up, and I've put a few together in very much less than perfect shape with no ill results, especially for low speed off road use. My main concern would be why its got chipped teath...probably due to the bearings being bad as Pixie stated. the tough part is a person would probably never get a good pattern on that used set of gears, having been run with bad bearings like that. Diff was probably full of water at one time. Once again, not the end of the world, just give it some clearance and "it'll be fine"... when in doubt, remember "loose is fast"

BUT... since its getting torn down, there is nothing wrong with installing good "new" parts, as long as its not cost prohibitive.



Eric

 

[pixie]

Yes, it's easier to cut out than deal with access. There is not enough room to pull the pinion shaft with the gears etc. in there. And, yes, it's the carrier that's welded in. I realize that it's possible to unbolt the gears from the carrier but it's not easy and if I was going to have someone else do the rebuild ( yes... I'm intimidated by this !! ) having the unit portable is an advantage.

Thanks for the comments about reusing damaged gears. I don't know much about this stuff and real world experience is very helpful. I'll consider the choices. Mostly, I don't want to do this again !!!!

I'll put up some pictures this evening.

 

[pixie]

Here's a couple of pictures. One shows the outside shape of the housing and the other is a removed differential.
It looks like this machine had a 'crash' at sometime or a problem with sucking debris into the track. It IS a forestry machine and was used as that so it's not surprising to see this damage. I was just hoping it leaked less badly

 

[King of Obsolete]

good pictures and you have the rust on only 1/2 a gear. i think that is very common with water getting in to the compartment.

there has to be a farm machine that uses this diff, the machine was made in quebec out of common parts and pieces. with the use of the BBs hopefully we can find a source of cheap parts.

thansk

 

[Eric L]

I'm not seeing how the oil stays in there and how water stays out...doesn't look like they're sealed very well.

​

Eric

 

[King of Obsolete]

water ususally gets in around the top cover. i have yet to see a diff that is not rusted up.

thansk

 

[J5 Bombardier]

Pixie:
Hold the torch and zip-cut ! The diff carrier assembly pulls out easy enough, side caps backed off and lift it out with a chain block. Should be able to see that leak from the inside. J5 Bombardier

 

[Eric L]

you sure thats factory?...looks like somthing a farmboy would whip up in metal shop class.. I'm questioning the precision of that weldment.

 

[J5 Bombardier]

Not so bad for 40 plus years ago, actually I think Bombardier was a farmer. Must have paid off though, because now his little backwoods company sells subway cars and jets to the states.:
J5 Bombardier

 

[pixie]

Thanks, J5. I am still on the fence about which way to do it. Looks like it will be a pain getting the pinion bearing cups out with the carrier still in the machine ??? Then when the gears are back in, I would have to adjust the backlash myself. That would be less intimidating with a new gear set......
There are several leaks about an inch forward of the verticle part of the carrier.

The front of the machine isn't very easy to work around.

 

[BigAl]

Wow ! You certainly are not afraid to tear into a piece of equiptment . Where were you when I torn down and rebuilt my JD 450 crawler ???

 

[King of Obsolete]

wow is that hard to work on, better work out then in the gym, LOL

any more numbers found or leads??????

thansk

 

[King of Obsolete]

this is a canadian website just started and it is for the bombardiers with the skis on the front, tracks on the back. these guys might be able to help since some parts are interchangable.

http://www.northerntracks.com/forum/index.php

thansk

 

[King of Obsolete]

pixie, try changing a bearing on a d6 9u cat, i could only see a 1/4 of an inch but i got it out using the torch and lots of luck. then press the new bearing back in. it keeps me in shape with all the climbing and lifting heavy stuff.

this cat is 1950 and it spent 3 years under water and i have been using it for 3 years after salvaging, LOL it was not rusted anywhere from the water.

thansk

 

[pixie]

Al, I have excellent references as a taker-aparter

Getting things back together doesn't always go as well ......

Just to straighten me out ... the 'carrier' is the whole part that is gears ? What's the thing that is welded in that holds the pinion gear and carrier called They are all called 'assemblies' in the book ....

I have a couple of new leads but haven't gained any knowledge about them yet.

That looks like a serious project, King o O ! I am sure you are experienced at this !!!!

I only had to cut one bearing off ....

 

[79bombi]

Pixie,

I got my ring and pinion from Gordon at Tracked Vehicles Technologies. It was a Dana and he also suggested putting in new shims which he sold me. He was very helpful and worked me thru the process. My bolts backed off thus trashing my ring and pinion. My gear case slowly got louder until it was too late.


http://www.afmi.ca/

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[pixie]

Thanks for the info, 79bombi !

I took the shaft side of the pinion shaft apart today and don't think it was put together right the last time. ( Not the only screw up on this machine ! ) I sent away for a new bearing and we'll see if that takes some of the slop out.

It wasn't making any noise but the ring is chipped on the outside edges. Time will tell

The machine is going to a real welder next week to have new steel panels put on the sides of the differential housing .

 

[J5 Bombardier]

Looks Good pixie !
I never saw that style of brake bands are they two piece ?
J5 Bombardier