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Bombardier Muskeg differential and drive

S

stever

New member
I recently purchased a muskeg with a drive issue I'm trying to figure out and had a few questions. I believe it is about a 1994 or 1995 based on date code on the engine. Very odd that Bombardier chose not to put date of manufacture on the name plate...

The machine is not sending power to the right track. What is strange though is I get power to the left track if I pull either brake - or both at once. it makes sense that if there was a broken axle or differential issue that stopping free spin on the right would send traction to the left but I"m not sure why I get good traction to the left with the left brake? I pulled the axle end caps but not much to see there. both brakes have good movement on the actuators. Anything else I should check before I pull the differential cover? It is pretty crammed under the front of the motor, radiator, and auxiliary hydraulic cooler but I "think" I can get it out without pulling the cab.. I'm worried about removing it and breaking bolts though.

anywhere I can find a full differential and axle diagram online?

what is the function of the narrow rods inside the front drive axles? both of mine have the castle stripped off and were just sitting under the cover but it doesn't seem that rod does anything critical from a drive perspective. There is more than enough stub in the axle to stay in the end cap from what I see so not sure if it is critical to try to fix them and get the nuts back on?

Are there any other forums or resources for muskegs you recommend? this forum seems to come up the most in searches.

thanks much! Hoping to spend some restoration time on this unit but for now just want to get it functional. It runs great!
 
The 1/2" rods visible after you remove the cover, screw into the axles, the other end with a castle nut holds a disc with an o ring. that keeps diff oil from running into the outer grease bearing on the rail. Rock the machine with vice grips/pry bar on the rod will allow you to pull the axle out. With one out you can run a long rod through to tap out the other. Roughly the same idea if you have planetaries, If the axles are not broke and the female splines in the sprocket tubes are not sheared off , you'll have to pull the diff cover and go deeper. On the vin plate , first line might say for ex: MC 73 which means "Muskeg Carrier 1973 " . Why they do it that way , don't know , it's a Quebec thing. Lots of diff pics on line , Safety One site used to have downloadable manuals as well as "Bombardier Keeping Them Alive " site. J5 Bombardier
 
J5 Bombardier said:
The 1/2" rods visible after you remove the cover, screw into the axles, the other end with a castle nut holds a disc with an o ring. that keeps diff oil from running into the outer grease bearing on the rail. ... J5 Bombardier
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Thanks. s just pull on that rod and the axle comes out, no clips in the diff or anything? I have the gear reducers outside the diff box so even with those it is still a straight shot to tap one axle out from the other side? I kind of got a borescope in the diff box but can't see much of interest. Although I would say that the placement of the diff cover on these is a bit of a design flaw. If the machine is set nose down then any rain or snow that comes in the grill just sits on the diff cover indefinitely - at a minimum you get rust but realistically some gets in. It did have a lot of water in it when I bought it.

The disc with the o-ring is also held from going further in due to the tube inner diameter and there is a large snap ring holding it in so it doesn't seem at risk of going anywhere without the castle nut.

Mine unfortunately has a ROPS serial number, engine serial number, and says "M.C.D. 1-MC" The engine serial number (a Perkins Phaser 110T) is coded 1994.
 
stever said:
Launched in '53 but produced until the early 2000's if you include the Prinoth hydraulic drive "HY" units
Click to expand...
Thank you for the image, it's clear.
Sadly I can't help you since I have a much older machine (J5, 1962) so it must be very different.
Good luck fixing your problem!
jf
 
stever said:
Thanks. s just pull on that rod and the axle comes out, no clips in the diff or anything? I have the gear reducers outside the diff box so even with those it is still a straight shot to tap one axle out from the other side? I kind of got a borescope in the diff box but can't see much of interest. Although I would say that the placement of the diff cover on these is a bit of a design flaw. If the machine is set nose down then any rain or snow that comes in the grill just sits on the diff cover indefinitely - at a minimum you get rust but realistically some gets in. It did have a lot of water in it when I bought it.

The disc with the o-ring is also held from going further in due to the tube inner diameter and there is a large snap ring holding it in so it doesn't seem at risk of going anywhere without the castle nut.

Mine unfortunately has a ROPS serial number, engine serial number, and says "M.C.D. 1-MC" The engine serial number (a Perkins Phaser 110T) is coded 1994.
Click to expand...
If you have planetarys the axles in the sprocket tubes dead end in the planetarys. There are covers to take off them and a second axle running into the diff , those can be tapped out if needed , no clips. Should be a top and bottom drain plugs on the planetary housings and a diff drain plug rht side and a drain plug under the pinion box. Those planetarys and axles are pretty tough, better than the older style, may be nothing wrong with them , but they need to come out if you have to pull the diff.
Yes Mr Bombardier should have kept the original T16 housing , instead of taking the internals and putting them into a box that collects water. It's especially bad with an engine above , snow /water coming in the grille. Serial number should be stamped on the right front bumper.
J5 Bombardier
 
So I got the diff cover off and slid back. The right hand side drive axle is sticking out much further than the left and it spins with the final drive (in gear idling) but the 1/2" axle pull bar does not and looking in the axle tube nothing is spinning. Also the differential side of the splined shaft slides in and out couple of inches with fingers while I can can't get the pull rod to budge either way. That axle is so stubby and stout this is hard to believe but the only possible thing is that the axle shaft (17) is sheered off, correct? Is that diagram to scale on the length of the axle shaft (17) or is it abbreviated/shortened for the diagram?
 

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The axle is not long ,not much more than the width of the planetary. If your lucky you can drive it back and out of the tube , but it's a tight spot. Worse case bust the track off . Unbolt the outer bearing(shark fin ) off the rail, rotate it 180, unbolt the seal retainer at the planetary and pull the sprocket assembly out where you can work at it. I have a restoration on here "Another Muskeg " there are planetary /drive line pics that might help.
 
Awesome, thanks J5!! I found the axle pic in this post . I see it is one set of continuous splines. In the bad parts manual pic it looks like it transitioned splines or diameters. Since it is all the same I guess I should be able to drive it out either way (into our out of the diff).
 
I would say out , it won't clear that housing stiffener .That was my last Muskeg project , been a few years , I was starting to forget how they went together. The long axle on the non planetary machines is stepped large end outside so they can be removed , but are tight. Can never have enough pics.
J5 Bombardier
 
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I finally pulled the axle out and sure enough it was broken . I was able to pull on the outside half making use of the threads in it. The inside half I sliced a piece off of so I could clear the braces and slide it into the differential case.

Anybody know who might carry axles or may be parting out muskegs? Or am I going to have to go with custom fab. Luckily plenty of custom axle shops out there. This will be the shortest axle they've ever seen.

This muskeg weighs a little over 21,000lbs as outfitted (a digger derick) which seems a bit excessive given the nameplate GVW is 7500kg (16,500lb). So any kind of abuse and I'm not surprised it broke an axle. Glad it wasn't something else (diff part).

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I ended up finding an axle. If anybody needs muskeg parts Mario outside of Montreal has a bone yard. After no luck with Prinoth dealers in Colorado and Calgary I found Mario's number in the description for this video and he had brand new axles in stock.
 
Just found this thread…but I had the same thing happen on my SV200, axle broke but I lost all power as It would just send power to the broke axle, you were getting power to the good side because of the fact that yours has the drop axles so it has a gearing factor that allows it more torque and I’m guessing you were getting “hydraulic“ fluid motion from cold fluid..think fluid coupler…it doesn’t make sense I know….glad you got it out and found Mario as he has alot of parts!
 
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@KickerM : your "bad decisions make good stories" reminds me of picking this Muskeg up. I bought it at auction in Wisconsin having not seen it but knowing it had a drivetrain issue - I live near Denver. The nameplate in the pictures says GVW 7500kg (16,500lb). This unit has a digger derrick crane, man bucket, 18klb front winch, some counter weights, and a hole auger mounted on it. Having no Muskeg experience I don't know what these things weigh but I figure worst case the full GVW 16klb. Seems like some references on the internet suggested the MCD-2MC might weigh 7-9klb with no load on it? Two days driving I got to Wisconsin to pick it up and we couldn't get it started (17F out, and frozen water in the exhaust) so we picked it up with a wheel loader and excavator and dropped it on my 15.8klb GVW trailer.... It didn't look good, clearly overloaded. But at this point I was already in WI with a trailer, what to do but drive 1020 miles back home very slowly. I managed to sheer off one set of trailer lug nuts, lost the wheel/tire, break an axle spring and bend one axle at the wheel - mostly due to dumb moves while loading it. I stopped at a scale along the way and truck+trailer+muskeg = 34.5klb which means the Muskeg is about 21klb or a bit more... whoah! way more than GVW. That puts me about 10klb overloaded. I drove home with pretty squished looking 12ply tires even at ~110psi. The one with the broken spring rubbing on the fender. I didn't notice it was because the spring was broken until I got home. Took the quiet backroads and drove slow.

Unloading was a joy, with it not working I used the front winch run under the machine to the back of the trailer to winch it off. In the pictures the trailer tires are intentionally deflated to get the trailer lower and avoid using (crushing?) my ramps. I expected the rear of the pickup to come off the ground but not the nearly 3' it did! So add ~$1000 in trailer repairs to the cost of fuel it took me to haul this back.

But hey it runs and drives now! I will say that as aggressive as those narrow metal cleats are and as much as this thing weighs it tills up my packed road base driveway pretty significantly even when going in a straight line!
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