Attic Stairs

[buckle97]

Let me start out by stating that I live in a very old house.
I need to install attic stairs. The only attic access now is through a small hole and I cannot expand this hole to put the attic stairs in the same location. My ceiling is 2x4 rafters, followed by 1x3 tongue and groove, followed by 12x12 ceiling tiles. I assume the ceiling tiles are glued to the tongue and groove. The stairs will being going close to the load-bearing wall in the center of the house.
My question is: how do I cut out the hole for the stairs? What is the best tool to use? Do I cut down from inside the attic or up from the inside the room?

Lawrence

 

[bczoom]

You're not going to cut through the 2x4" rafters, correct?

The 12" ceiling tiles I'm familiar with are actually attached via brads in a tongue-and-groove fashion.

My approach would be something like this:
Mark the area from the under side. Using a utility knife, cut the ceiling tiles and remove.
Using a reciprocating, jig or small circular saw, cut through the tongue and groove 1x3". A full-size circular saw may be a bit heavy...

If you can get your saw in from the top, it would be easier. My mention of doing it from the bottom is that I'm assuming the rafters would be in the way of getting a saw in from the top.

EDIT: Make sure you wear goggles and such.

 

[buckle97]

You're not going to cut through the 2x4" rafters, correct?

Thanks for the advice.
Correct, I'm not going to cut through the rafters. The rafters are not all spaced equally; I think I have spaces from 21" to 24". The stairs I am seeing come in widths in 2" increments. How much gap do I need around the stair frame to get them in?
My sole reason for putting the stairs in is so I can get an air handler up in my attic. We don't have central heat or air but we desperately want it. This is the first step in that direction. I am looking at the specs on the air handlers to make sure the hole I cut for the stairs will also be wide enough for an air handler to fit through. Most seem to be 22" on the narrowest side.
I also thought it would be hard to cut from above due to the rafters. Sounds like a good reason to purchase a reciprocating saw .

 

[bczoom]

When you purchase the stairs, they'll give you the "rough opening". You'll want to get the closest size that'll fit between your rafters. E.g. If your rafters are 21" apart, you get as close to that size as possible without going over the 21" (which would probably be a 20" unit.

Save some of the 1x3" tongue-and-groove in case you need to shim your rough opening. Again, if the stairs call for a 20" rough opening and your rafters are 21", use one of the boards as a shim to get down to approx. 20".

A couple other things.
You'll most likely want/need to run some 2x4's between your rafters once you have your hole (making a 2x4" frame all the way around).

How much does the air handler weigh? You may want/need to take some 2x6's (or larger) and attach them to the sides of your 2x4 rafters to beef it up under the air handler.

Depending on the weight of the air handler, you probably can't use the stairs. I would propose you get the air handler through the rough opening, then install the stairs.

 

[Junkman]

With a 2" X 4" support structure, I doubt that the attic can handle even the weight of an average human being. You are going to need to beef up the attic floor substantial before doing any work up there. Without knowing how the floor rests on load bearing walls, it is hard to give specific advise, other than you should consult a structural engineer. It might be better and less expensive to use one of the newer split units that mount on the wall close to the ceiling. It would also be more efficient.

 

[buckle97]

How much does the air handler weigh? You may want/need to take some 2x6's (or larger) and attach them to the sides of your 2x4 rafters to beef it up under the air handler.

I am expecting the air handler to be placed in the center of the house directly over a load bearing wall, so I'm not sure how much support I will need to add.

Depending on the weight of the air handler, you probably can't use the stairs. I would propose you get the air handler through the rough opening, then install the stairs.

How do people replace the air handlers they have in their attics when they already have stairs in place?
The air handler I am currently looking at lists the shipping weight as 173 lbs.

 

[buckle97]

With a 2" X 4" support structure, I doubt that the attic can handle even the weight of an average human being. You are going to need to beef up the attic floor substantial before doing any work up there. Without knowing how the floor rests on load bearing walls, it is hard to give specific advise, other than you should consult a structural engineer. It might be better and less expensive to use one of the newer split units that mount on the wall close to the ceiling. It would also be more efficient.

I have been in the attic numerous times over the years and haven't noticed any ill effects of being up there. This is all rough cut lumber up there. The current hole to get up there is just a 2' x 2' cut out between the 2x4's and I have to pull myself up through it. Like I stated above, I am planning on putting the stairs close to a load bearing wall in the center of the house, so the 2x4's at that point are resting on that wall. I also thought about adding some vertical braces to the roof joists.
Regarding the split units, that is what we are trying to get away from. We currently have window air conditioners and space heaters. We would love for all the rooms to be the same temperature, be able to watch tv with the air conditioner on, etc. Our house has seven total rooms, so even with one of the three-unit split systems I don't think it would keep every room the same temperature. Someone please let me know if I am wrong about this.

 

[bczoom]

I am expecting the air handler to be placed in the center of the house directly over a load bearing wall, so I'm not sure how much support I will need to add.

How do people replace the air handlers they have in their attics when they already have stairs in place?
The air handler I am currently looking at lists the shipping weight as 173 lbs.

I'd start a new thread about installing the air handler so some of our HVAC guys see it. I don't know if they're reading this stairs thread but I'd probably attach an 8' 2x6" to each of your 2x4 rafters where the air handler is going to go.

Again, re. replacing the air handler, let's let the HVAC guys answer. Where I was going with this is the fact that most attic stairs or ladders (you haven't yet mentioned exactly what you're installing) don't have a very high weight capacity. A good one can handle about 300# but many are only rated for 250# (or less). Therefore, you and the air handler shouldn't be on the stairs at the same time.