Another take on the OWS movement.

[Cowboy]

This article was sent to me by a friend a week or so ago and I held of posting it due to the fact it is rather long and I doubted anyone would take the time to read it. Since it seems to be the topic again here in other threads I thought I would start a new thread to not deter from others threads .

I know there are a few here that might take the time to read it so I figured it was worth a shot. Its to long to copy and paste but I think it explains a lot about whats really behind the movement. Like a few others here I personally know some folks in our age group and older that have gotten involved and some belong to the tea party as well.

The protests that I have heard about , locally and otherwise have been completly peacefull, they just dont get any media coverage like the ones plastered all over you tube and the biased media sites. Beleive it or not everyone has common goals its just that with the unions and other disrupters trying to take advantage of the situations going on they are very rarely heard.

I will say again I have looked at this through open eyes from almost the begining and allthough I dont agree with what some of the protests have turned into , but there is a message that needs to be heard as well as much needed guidence from those that have the knowledge of how to go about it.

At any rate , heres the link to the article , plese read it before making any comments because I would like some honest input from those on all sides.

http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=22946

 

[FrancSevin]

This article was sent to me by a friend a week or so ago and I held of posting it due to the fact it is rather long and I doubted anyone would take the time to read it. Since it seems to be the topic again here in other threads I thought I would start a new thread to not deter from others threads .

I know there are a few here that might take the time to read it so I figured it was worth a shot. Its to long to copy and paste but I think it explains a lot about whats really behind the movement. Like a few others here I personally know some folks in our age group and older that have gotten involved and some belong to the tea party as well.

The protests that I have heard about , locally and otherwise have been completly peacefull, they just dont get any media coverage like the ones plastered all over you tube and the biased media sites. Beleive it or not everyone has common goals its just that with the unions and other disrupters trying to take advantage of the situations going on they are very rarely heard.

I will say again I have looked at this through open eyes from almost the begining and allthough I dont agree with what some of the protests have turned into , but there is a message that needs to be heard as well as much needed guidence from those that have the knowledge of how to go about it.

At any rate , heres the link to the article , plese read it before making any comments because I would like some honest input from those on all sides.

http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=22946

They were peaceful here in St louis for weeks,
Springfield Mo the protesters and the police were damm near Kum ba Yahing all evening.

St Louis got ugly this week.

Don't yet know about Springfield.

Try as anyone might, to put a pleasant or reasonable face on it, the occupy Wall Street crowd, the one that is actually on Wall Street where to movement began and is still centered, is damm ugly. It doesn't need a slanted yellow press media to show that. I doubt this is a Lunar landing fake job.......

That is what is truely happening there.

Is this a cyclical event. I have already suggested yes. French revolution and The Russian Spring

 

[Enceladus]

I read the article and some of it made a lot of sense to me, but some of it did not. But Occupy will harm those who get up and go to work, or those who are actually out there looking for employment. And while the richest people have most of the wealth they have it because the two parties do not think of the people and the country first, only of themselves. I really do not know what to say, but I disagree with stopping someone from getting to his job. We all have rights the Occupy People do not care about others rights.

 

[joec]

I read the article and some of it made a lot of sense to me, but some of it did not. But Occupy will harm those who get up and go to work, or those who are actually out there looking for employment. And while the richest people have most of the wealth they have it because the two parties do not think of the people and the country first, only of themselves. I really do not know what to say, but I disagree with stopping someone from getting to his job. We all have rights the Occupy People do not care about others rights.

Now there we agree I said it from the get go they need to go after congress as that is the problem first. Once they have that the big banks will perhaps figure their days are numbered too.

Now folks before you brand me again. I'm all for making money however I also have a moral code that over rides the need to do it no matter who it hurts. I feel employers and employees both need each other period or nothing works.

 

[FrancSevin]

Now there we agree I said it from the get go they need to go after congress as that is the problem first. Once they have that the big banks will perhaps figure their days are numbered too.

Now folks before you brand me again. I'm all for making money however I also have a moral code that over rides the need to do it no matter who it hurts. I feel employers and employees both need each other period or nothing works.

The problem is they, the OW anarchists, are not going after congress. And those people that actually are going after Congress, the TEA's, are villified.

It takes three election cycles to rid the government of an ingrained corrupt system of crony politics. We are past the first cycle with some great successes. November 2012 is the second cycle. TEA party focus is again on Governorships, Senators and Congress Reps. White house would be a plum but not required.

Senate control, House Control, CIC has to behave. Hell, they might make Barry into a good president.

Ok,maybe that's a stretch. But the idea worked on Clinton.

 

[joec]

I don't know if I buy the republican plans any more than the democratic plans. How about no parties at all but let people run on what they believe without signing any pledges and such. Then have a run off between the top 2 or 3 vote getters. Then and only then do we get away for party politics which to me is the cause of most of our problems really. I also suggest that we have elections like they do in some places in Europe, 3 months of free air time to state their case then vote period no other money from any one at all. We do control the air ways in the US so perhaps it is time the government goes back to demanding time spent on public interest events instead of giving them a free rain with their nonsense programming.

As for Barry being a good president who knows he does have the most experience now of anyone out there that can run. One can hope I guess though I also tend to doubt it, just please don't tell anyone as they think I'm a fan.

 

[FrancSevin]

I don't know if I buy the republican plans any more than the democratic plans. How about no parties at all but let people run on what they believe without signing any pledges and such. Then have a run off between the top 2 or 3 vote getters. Then and only then do we get away for party politics which to me is the cause of most of our problems really. I also suggest that we have elections like they do in some places in Europe, 3 months of free air time to state their case then vote period no other money from any one at all. We do control the air ways in the US so perhaps it is time the government goes back to demanding time spent on public interest events instead of giving them a free rain with their nonsense programming.

As for Barry being a good president who knows he does have the most experience now of anyone out there that can run. One can hope I guess though I also tend to doubt it, just please don't tell anyone as they think I'm a fan.

Since there are no former presidents in the GOP pack,your statement is technicaly correct if so qualified. But Newt and Rommney far outstripps him on the experience quotient level.

You propose a new system. I propse we exchange the players.
Our system has worked for 230 years, but the current crony corruption has gummed the machinery.

I submit, we do not need to overhaul the system, just the folks cranking on the handles.

We started our nation with inexperienced squirrel hunters, Farmers, Clergy and shop keepers. I would suggest we try that combination again.

For despite their lack of experience, despite the missng stability of tradition and past practices to guide them, they made some rather remarkable decisions that led our nation through some very tough times. And founded it in reason and fairness.

The selfserving bastards we have now will not change from the culture of corruption that feeds them so well. New gears and bearings won't correct that for it must be in the hearts of men to do what is moral and right. Such morals are determined by mutual agreements amoung men and women of goodwill. We cannot trust that many of those now reside in DC.

be well Joec

 

[joec]

Since there are no former presidents in the GOP pack,your statement is technicaly correct if so qualified. But Newt and Rommney far outstripps him on the experience quotient level.

You propose a new system. I propse we exchange the players.
Our system has worked for 230 years, but the current crony corruption has gummed the machinery.

I submit, we do not need to overhaul the system, just the folks cranking on the handles.

We started our nation with inexperienced squirrel hunters, Farmers, Clergy and shop keepers. I would suggest we try that combination again.

For despite their lack of experience, despite the missng stability of tradition and past practices to guide them, they made some rather remarkable decisions that led our nation through some very tough times. And founded it in reason and fairness.

The selfserving bastards we have now will not change from the culture of corruption that feeds them so well. New gears and bearings won't correct that for it must be in the hearts of men to do what is moral and right. Such morals are determined by mutual agreements amoung men and women of goodwill. We cannot trust that many of those now reside in DC.

be well Joec

Now the highlighted quote above is dead on. Every one of the group in the primary with two exceptions are self serving. Those exception are Paul and Huntsman both of which stand behind what they say they believe. The rest will say what they think you want to hear to vote for them. Just my opinion.

 

[Kane]

Now the highlighted quote above is dead on. Every one of the group in the primary with two exceptions are self serving. Those exception are Paul and Huntsman both of which stand behind what they say they believe. The rest will say what they think you want to hear to vote for them. Just my opinion.

So true.

Ron Paul is the constitutional historian/authority and America would be a better place if Paul were in power to turn the ship around, back to the future so to speak.

And his ideas to audit the Fed, if not get rid of it entirely, are sound in principle. But I fear by the time he got done we would be back to trading in trinkets and beads.

.

 

[Cowboy]

I read the article and some of it made a lot of sense to me, but some of it did not. But Occupy will harm those who get up and go to work, or those who are actually out there looking for employment. And while the richest people have most of the wealth they have it because the two parties do not think of the people and the country first, only of themselves. I really do not know what to say, but I disagree with stopping someone from getting to his job. We all have rights the Occupy People do not care about others rights.

Thanks for reading it and sharing your opinion Enceladus as well as the rest that replyed . I was hoping to have more join in that have witnessed personal experiences of how things were in their local protests because I think it would give a better idea of the meaning behind the "movement" . Not to be confused with the publicised protests like in NY, Oakland ect that have turned into freak shows at least as shown by the media.

I agree those types of things happening are of no help to anyone, including the movement or the ideologogy behind it. I am also disgusted by a lot of what is going on at some of the protests and agree 100% on the last sentence in your post.

I apreciate you input as well Franc as what is going on around your area . Although its been many years, I have been to just about every city where a lot of these ugly protests are taking place and I see nothing surprising now then I have seen in person in the past when there wasn't even anything to protest.

These larger citys produce these types of people and they for the most part are looking for an excuse to jump on any bandwagon at any time to show their disrespect for their country, government and many races that has made America what it is today. I still like to think they are the minority, but they just seem to multiply and breed like rats in these areas that continue to suport them hoping they will just go away or keep quiet. That never seems to happen IMO, its much like when the tide comes in and the rats and roaches emerge due to nowhere else to go.

At any rate I still hope that some good will come out of it and it doesn't get worse , I think if more sensible folks would get involved their are enough misguided folks willing to listen they might weedout the misfits that are causing the problems and get things on the right track. But I still would like to think their is a chance for world peace, not in my lifetime but maybe in not to far away future generations.

I may not be very realistic, but then again I have allready taken measures to be prepared and protect those that are important to me.

 

[Kane]

Just like the Egyptian uprising, it is entirely unknown who will step forward to harness the Movement's energy. And there is plenty of energy to go around.

If it is someone or some figurehead that is into it for the right objectives, the OWS could indeed be a good thing for America. But like many point out the movement is vilifying the wrong people. They need to be on 16th right in front of the White House, not on Wall Street.

My fear is that this rage and energy will be harnessed by the wrong people. The movement is ripe for picking by the union bosses, or worse yet by Van Jones and the other fucked up ideologue George Soros.

The bottled up rage and energy can serve either good or evil. How do we steer it to the right cause?

 

[Cowboy]

Just like the Egyptian uprising, it is entirely unknown who will step forward to harness the Movement's energy. And there is plenty of energy to go around.

If it is someone or some figurehead that is into it for the right objectives, the OWS could indeed be a good thing for America. But like many point out the movement is vilifying the wrong people. They need to be on 16th street in front of the White House, not on Wall Street.

My fear is that this rage and energy will be harnessed by the wrong people. The movement is ripe for picking by the union bosses, or worse yet by Van Jones and the other fucked up ideologue George Soros.

The bottled up rage and energy can serve either good or evil. How do we steer it to the right cause?

I totaly agree Kane, but to me its not very feasible for as many folks that are upset with the way things are especialy in todays economy to just load up and go to DC where it might do more good. Which IMO it is being handled locally just to try to get the message heard.

The best place would have been at the voter booths all over the country at the last midterm elections but I think many have since woke up and its a long time until the next election.

I also agree with your statement about the unions and others using it for their own agenda which has allready happened in many places. I honestly beleive if more from the tea party would get involved on every local level it could move things on the right track, but so far that just isn't happening enough because it seems no one can come to an agreement much like those in congress and the house.

We cant continue to fight each other if we are going to have a chance to get the corrupt lifelong politicians out and some new blood in . 2012 really will be our very last chance to turn things around IMO if in fact there is anything left to save. If the likes of Pelosi, Reid and the many other corrupt ones on both sides are voted in again we are basicly screwed IMO, no matter who is elected for POTUS.

 

[Zorro]

We cant continue to fight each other if we are going to have a chance to get the corrupt lifelong politicians out and some new blood in . 2012 really will be our very last chance to turn things around IMO if in fact there is anything left to save. If the likes of Pelosi, Reid and the many other corrupt ones on both sides are voted in again we are basicly screwed IMO, no matter who is elected for POTUS.

This is the same conclusion that I have come to as well. If we can make it to the next election, it will most likely be our last chance. I am not very hopeful at this point. Look at how the TEA PARTY is demonized by the press, for asking that our government simply follow the Constitution. Look at the anal exam the republican candidates or going through and compare that to the pass Obama has been given. Getting to the election, and getting a fair election may be two different things. The article you posted at the top of this thread refers to this latest generation as the most educated ever. Here is a link to the OWS web site. LINK I have spent a day reading the post on it, and I do not believe that these people have had any education at all in regard to this country and its history. They have been indoctrinated instead. For the first time in my life I feel that the right to vote should be linked to an ability to show a working knowledge of American history and Civics. These people should be upset about their student loans. They have been cheated!

 

[FrancSevin]

Now the highlighted quote above is dead on. Every one of the group in the primary with two exceptions are self serving. Those exception are Paul and Huntsman both of which stand behind what they say they believe. The rest will say what they think you want to hear to vote for them. Just my opinion.

Uhhh..........Could be wrong but,,,,, I think there is more going on than the GOP primaries for President in 2012
Open your focus please. You completely missed it.

Everyone in the 110th, 111th Congress must be replaced.

Paul is a xenophobe, otherwise I like his positions
Huntsman, well I like him, actually met him, but he does not have the horsepower,,,,yet.

I cannot understand the alpha male approach to a citizen functioning in a constitutional democratic republic.

 

[joec]

This is the same conclusion that I have come to as well. If we can make it to the next election, it will most likely be our last chance. I am not very hopeful at this point. Look at how the TEA PARTY is demonized by the press, for asking that our government simply follow the Constitution. Look at the anal exam the republican candidates or going through and compare that to the pass Obama has been given. Getting to the election, and getting a fair election may be two different things. The article you posted at the top of this thread refers to this latest generation as the most educated ever. Here is a link to the OWS web site. LINK I have spent a day reading the post on it, and I do not believe that these people have had any education at all in regard to this country and its history. They have been indoctrinated instead. For the first time in my life I feel that the right to vote should be linked to an ability to show a working knowledge of American history and Civics. These people should be upset about their student loans. They have been cheated!

Now I agree with some of this however the tea party wants smaller government according to what most write about it with little that actually is in the constitution really.

Yes any one running for president of the US or for that matter any office should be vetted period. That just happens to be what the press is for. Now I agree that on some stations the tea party is vilified while liberals and the OWS are also vilified on others. I also agree that Obama got a free ride but Hillary sure didn't nor did some of the others in that race.

What these people should be if they aren't upset about is the fact our government is for sale to the highest bidder and when that is fixed the rest will come around if not get ready for some major upheaval in your life time.

 

[Zorro]

Now I agree with some of this however the tea party wants smaller government according to what most write about it with little that actually is in the constitution really.

Please show me something to back this up. The Constitution is very clear on what the Federal Governments duties are. I have not heard or read anything from the TEA PARTY that conflicts with the Constitution. If you have I would like to see it. I am not a member, but I do end up defending them a lot. So if I am wrong about them I would like to know.

 

[joec]

Please show me something to back this up. The Constitution is very clear on what the Federal Governments duties are. I have not heard or read anything from the TEA PARTY that conflicts with the Constitution. If you have I would like to see it. I am not a member, but I do end up defending them a lot. So if I am wrong about them I would like to know.

The constitution is a document that is subject to interpretation by the SCOTUS. Now with that said laws that have been excepted for years can be changed or nullified completely by the SCOTUS. Be it Row v Wade decision or the latest one saying Corporations also had the same rights as individuals. Now those two should show how it works and make make my point. Both where considered straight accepted law but in both cases the SCOTUS made a decision we all have to live with now that is until it is changed again.

As for the tea party having conflicts with the constitution as it stands now perhaps they do perhaps not. I didn't say they did I disagree with what you said. They have always been describe to me as wanting a smaller federal government. The only thing I've heard from them about enforcing the constitution is in regards to Obamacare which again will be decided on by the SCOTUS and not them. I have no real problem with the tea party myself other they have had their movement compromised in my opinion by some external groups that are mostly self serving. Perhaps the same will happen with the OWS movement just too early to tell. I've also saw your post from their "official" site which really isn't since they have yet to put out a real message just junk posted by what I feel is the fringe which by the way the tea party also had when it started out.

These movements tend to all start disorganized and build over time be it the Bonus Army after WW1 or the civil rights movement. Either way they got what they wanted in the end and changed this country for a long time to come.

 

[nixon]

The constitution is a document that is subject to interpretation by the SCOTUS.

Joe, I thought the scotus was there to determine if laws were constitutional , not to enterpret the constitution.

 

[joec]

Joe, I thought the scotus was there to determine if laws were constitutional , not to enterpret the constitution.

I agree, but again Nixon based on what I've seen they do it regardless of their political leanings. The SCOTUS has no powers listed in the constitution in regards to presidential elections either. They did rule though in regards to in Gore v Bush stopping a states recount.