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601 motor change

  • Thread starter Thread starter kermit2
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kermit2

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What's the easiest way to pull the motor out of a 601? The guys at Challenge Mt want to sawsall the roof and go up. Anybody want a hatch?

The bus smokes too much to use as a limo, so they have decided not to run it this year. A 350 chevy has become available and they want to morph it in.

I, being the driver of said 601 can't let that happen. I have volunteered to rebuild/replace the OLD FORD motor.

I am starting right now.

I can build/rebuild a racecar by myself from the ground up, i think I can tackle a little snowcat.
I may need a little advice though.

Here we go 1st question;
should I rebuild the 223 or replace it?
 
if i was going to morf something in it would be a 4- b cummins or an isuzu diesel other wise a 250 ar 300 six should de darn near a bolt in replacement with improved power also if you had a amc 6 cylinder wih a bell housing it would bolt up to your trans and all you need is the amc clutch and addaptor pilot bearing as amc used ford patterned transmissions.good luck hope that helps i dont think a small bloch chevy is a good choice although i do have a lot of respect for that motor your rig needs an inline 6.
 
The Ford 300 is a great motor and available.

For getting it out: you might be able to build a pile of cribbing on each side of the cat and have a steel beam across thru the doors ?? Or use a lift inside the machine after putting some wood on the floor.

What ever you do , take some pictures !!!

We'll be cheering for you :flowers:
 
Agreed, the 300 six is the way to go......

A newer one with fuel injection and computor controls would be my choice. They run forever if maintained, and have more torque than a 460 up to about 2,500 rpm's or so. Ford should have never given up on the inline 6......
Regards, Kirk
 
You can disassemble the engine in the engine bay and reassemble the new engine in bay. I just fired up one and it purrs like a kitten ... and this engine-bay approach was used. No rigging, no cabin removal, etc...
Use the 300. Rebuild the 223 and have it readily available when/if needed...or trade it in when buying the 300.
 
If you go with a fuel injected 300, just so you know, you can remove the cylinder head with the three piece intake/exhaust manifolds intack. They are hard to remove and replace, so don't bother.

Regards, Kirk
 
i was hoping some one could tell you how to get the motor out i'm not familiar with the anatomy of the 601 interior but i would think a i beam system like a bv206 uses would be the way to go and run it out the back door on a trolly and come along. maby 2 holes in the roof with a weight spreader plate on top and some kind of hook over the rear of the cab to support the i beam just a thaught don't know if you have the clearance in side the cab to lift it out that way the other way would to build an offset lifting apperatus shaped like a c and use an over head gantry crane to lift the engine through one of the front doors
 
keep in mind , swaping the 223 for a 300 the exhaust/intake and carb will be on the opposite side. small block sounds like a great idea , until you find out how tight is is in there , then theres the running hot problem. for what its worth go with a ford 6 cyl at any rate , either rebuild or replace.

kermit, did the 601 sit somewhere dormant for a while??
 
I don't have any experience with a Ford 300/6 cylinder.

I do like fuel injection, and about 18 months ago I swapped a throttle body injected 454 into a K5 Blazer that previously had a carbureted 350.

In my case I purchased a "donor" Suburban with the fuel injected 454. That way I could take everything I needed which included the (larger) radiator, all engine driven accessories, brackets, belts and pulleys. I also harvested the Suburbans ecm, and engine wiring harness as well as the main vehicle wiring harness. I took the in-tank fuel pump from the Suburban and replaced the fuel lines from a fuel injected Blazer at a salvage yard.

I also have a Toyota FJ40 LandCruiser with a Chevrolet LS-1 Corvette engine. The LS-1 is a fuel injected aluminum engine. That swap is much more complicated, in part because the engines computer is much more sophisticated. In that case it required purchasing an aftermarket engine wiring harness and getting the engines computer re-programmed to eliminate a lot of stuff such as the second set of oxygen sensors (behind the catalytic converters), various vehicle speed sensors and anti-theft protections.

The point to these stories is that if you decide to go with a fuel injected engine you'll be rewarded with many benefits, but the swap is considerably more complicated than a carbureted engine swap. With the Blazer I could get virtually all oem parts.
 
With a late vintage 300 6 cylinder, OEM parts from the donor would be all you need. These 300's were truck motors, and were used in "simpler" pick ups of the time. They have none of the sensors thet are presant in a car's electronics today. Just engine management functions. The biggest benifit of the injected 300 is the intake maniflold. Very long runners for great low end torque. Ford went to quite a bit of trouble and expence producing this manifold. It wraps up and over the valve cover, and is quite large for an intake manifold. They are quite a bit stronger running than the carberated versions, at engine friendly speeds. This engine would still be my pick.....I'm partial though, I have one with over 300,000 miles without an overhaul.:hammer: Still runs great!:whistling:

Regards, Kirk
 
Hey Kirk,

Not to hijack the thread, but it sounds as though you have quite a bit of experience with these. I've been looking at upgrading my Spryte with a 300 and an automatic trans. I'd leave the dreaded c-4 axle and trans in place and just run in 3rd or 4th gear most of the time. Here are my questions:

Which transmission would you recommend? It would be nice to have something (like on the newer powerstrokes, duramax, and cummins 3/4 tons) that will use the engine to hold back on a downhill. Not a jake brake, just a "smart" transmission.

Did any of the F150's with the 300's have such a transmission?

If not, is there something that would bolt up?

I've been looking for a 1990 to 1996 F150 or Econoline for a donor. Are there other models I should be on the lookout for?

And now ladies and gentlemen, back to the original topic:

Kermit2,

Keep posting! I suspect there are a lot of us (like me) out here that will be following your progress closely in anticipation of our own upgrades.
 
The factory trans for the 300 had no such feature. It had an overdrive lock out, and that is it, I believe. My father and I have had several of these engines in 1/2 ton pickups over the years, and the fuel injected motor was the last and the best of the ones we owned.

For yours what about a C6 trans? Ski Dozers have them I think I have read. For maximum engine breaking what about a manual....

Pm me so we don't hijack this any more...

Regards, Kirk
 
Remember this is Challenge Mts 601, Not mine. It's 2 1/2 hrs away, so I can't just go out to the barn and check it out. And nobody's cutting it up.

I never thought about taking it apart to get it out, I'll have a look Friday.
I'm not going to start on it until it warms up as I'm going to take my trailer,(tools) and stay right there.

I'd like to keep the same engine in it. All it does is smoke a bit,a bit too much.
If the blocks good, why not?
Of course it might be more cost effective to get a low mileage wrecked truck and use that engine.

We'll see, Thanks for the input.
 
Yea, I didn't think you'd let them do something like that. It would be moronic to cut the hatch off. Ridiculous.
 
So how many guys to get the block out? Or once you get the head off you can go out the front? I have too many questions right now, but by the sound of it, it's going to be a little bit easier than I thought.

I'm going to still see if we can use it a little bit this year, even if the Tucker has to tow it:oops:.
Once again, thanks,
 
Just a thought, but have you checked the valve stem seals. They get old and crumble. There may not be anything wrong or worn besides that. If they are rock hard or cracked, it would cause it to burn some oil and smoke. It's a cheap fix, and you could do it now to see if it cures the problem.
 
Kermit, while these are all good ideas, I'm gonna suggest you do the tried and true, rings, rod bearings, valve job, poor mans overhaul. Leave the engine in the machine, pull the head and send it out, hone the cylinders, install new rings and rod bearings. Generally you can replace the rear main seal without dropping the crank using one of those 'Chinese finger trap' tools. If you have a good running six that is just using a little too much oil thats all you need to do.
 
Cdobsonus, I think the idea of putting a 300/C-6 in front of an OC-4 is a bad idea. Although I do not believe having an OC-4 equipted machine is something to be "dreaded", if you put in an engine twice as powerful as the original 170 and then gear it down with the C-6 and torque multiplication of the automatic, you will soon experience a differential failure.
 
I had the same concern. I'm on the lookout for an OC-12 too. But I'm having mixed feelings. I'm wondering if I shouldn't just trade up into a 1200 C model that's already got everything I'm trying to do with mine. I'd probably be money ahead. :)
 
kermit2 said:
What's the easiest way to pull the motor out of a 601? The guys at Challenge Mt want to sawsall the roof and go up. Anybody want a hatch?

The bus smokes too much to use as a limo, so they have decided not to run it this year. A 350 chevy has become available and they want to morph it in.

I, being the driver of said 601 can't let that happen. I have volunteered to rebuild/replace the OLD FORD motor.

I am starting right now.

I can build/rebuild a racecar by myself from the ground up, i think I can tackle a little snowcat.
I may need a little advice though.

Here we go 1st question;

should I rebuild the 223 or replace it?
Click to expand...








WHAT! A SAWZAW! Are they F ucking NUTS! Get your rig outta there NOW! Any moron that wants to take a sawzaw or any other cutting device to your 601 has no business near said 601. It would be easier anyway to pull the upper body off! Check out WEATHERBYs 601 build. Post one shows you the correct way to do a motor swap! Pull the lower tub and they have unlimited access to it. But seriously. Get your 601 outta there. Unbelieveable! A Fracking Sawzaw! complete FN !#@&@!!!!!

OK here is a the thread I was talking about! http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=7484


A Sawzaw................Good Lord what has become of our Nation?
 
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