Snow Trac Manufacturing History

Westerasmaskiner means literally 'Hill top machine works' or 'ridge top machine works' and is pronounced "Ves ter hos ma she ner". The company in Sweden was owned by the Bolinder family which also produced farm equipment. They had a Casting Works. The original plant has been torn down, but they still produce a very good farm tractor as Volvo-Bolinder.

The early prototypes were shipped to Alaska and tested by the US military. There is a picture of Mr. Bolinder on one of the sales brochures. The Variator used in ST4's (Snow Trac, Snow Master, and Trac Master) was also used by Westerasmaskiner for a Combine. Around 1976 the Snow Trac line was sold to AKTIV which was owned by Bob Person's and is in roughly the same area of Sweden. Bob is the one driving the Snow Trac on the cover of the Operators Manual, and that's his daughter riding with him. I had the original photo used to generate the Operators Manual which I obtained from Him. >

Snow Trac's were built in "Batches". The factory made all the parts and "Stockpiled" them in a warehouse. The sales Division would request assembly of a "Batch" which would then be assembled from parts. Batches were generally 10,25, or 35. Their biggest single sale was in 1961/62 when the Canadian Phone company ordered roughly 100 machines. If you look at the production chart it's the only year that sales exceeded 200 machines.

According to Bob Persons, president and owner of AKTIV (Pronounced Octave, like the musical scale), a US Military contract came up which they were competing for and they built an expensive, Heavier Duty machine intending to produce it IF they got the contract which instead went to Haglund.>

When VW discontinued the BUG they figured that they wouldn't be able to get engines and discontinued the line. He further indicated that had they known that VW production was going to continue in Mexico that they might have continued. He also indicated that the entire last year and a half of production was made from 'Spare Parts'.>

I know very little about the continued production in Scotland, but due to the similarity of the Scottish machines I would venture a guess that they too were produced from 'spares' that mostly originated from Sweden.

LYNDON when was the last time you talked to Bob Persons?

It's been some years, but I spent most of the time talking to his brother or brother in law about the Vintage Cadillac he was restoring. Bob said then that " If I wanted to build ST4, just go Ahead" and implied that no patent of 'right of manufacture' issues would be involved.

All the history on these machines is very interesting, but has Mr Persons ever said what was the final demise of the snow Trac line or what happened to the original plans for the machines ? just curious Thanks

It is my understanding that when VW stopped producing the air-cooled engines in Europe that pretty much shut down the production of the Snow Tracs.

The cost to import them from Mexico or Brazil, where they continued to be made was apparently cost prohibitive.

Any idea as to what happened to the original plans for the machines ???

Clifford said:

Any idea as to what happened to the original plans for the machines ???

Click to expand...

Christer Morland in Sweden has all the original plans (blue prints) for Snow-Trac, Trac-Master and Snow-Masters.

i wonder what happened to all the origional tooling to stampout all the grousers and round parts

dds said:

i wonder what happened to all the origional tooling to stampout all the grousers and round parts

Click to expand...

I suspect they are all in Sweden, probably been retooled or recycled many years ago.

I wonder what a new snow-trac would cost today if someone built it ?? how could it be improved and modernized...

the cold hard fact is it would have to have a liquid cooled engine with a computerized engine management system and catylist to meat emmissions standrads to be manufactured and sold in the us even as an offroad vehicle the 2 band track was the best i have some opinions on thhe front suspension i think there is room for improvement but wouldn't want to loose reliability operator noise levels would have to drop and some kind of roll over protective structure would have to be engineered to make our new touchy feely world happy.

Interesting, why would you think that it would have to be liquid cooled ? not all atv's are liquid cooled or have to pass emissions ? not all snowmobiles are liquid cooled ? why would it have to have a catalytic converter ? strictly a off road machine ? I.E. for use at a ski area or a lodge for example....

the small aircooled atv's are getting by with small engines take a look a the moderen snowmachine and see what they have to do just to make a 550 or 600 engine to meet the new standrads than multply cc by 3 for some thing in the 1600 range there is no way you could make it work with out exhaust after treatment even lot of your new diesels at tier3 emissions and before long i expect to see exhaust after treatment on them i don't like it it is more to go wrong and adds un necessary cost to the equipment it is a fact of life that it's comming. and if you are selling it in the US you will have to have the certifications the ini truck crowd has been hit hard that way now some of these trucks are no longer imported be cause they don't meet offroad vehicle emissions standrads.

Might be easier than you think, tracked off road vehicles are less resricted when it comes to emissions I think, there are no license requried for a owner to operate in back country or on private property, on public lands might be different, this is hardly a licensed vehicle to go down the interstate highway as you know, building a off road vehicle for the antartic or a ski area might be alot different, who is going to go inspect it a 10,000 ft in a snow storm ?? are you saying that you could NOT use a vw or porsche air cooled engine ??? not to sure where this is going I just think it would not be that difficult to start the company up again...just my thought...

the regulations are not as strict for offroad vehicles but there is regulation for new built vehicles also i do like the idea and i know a lot of peaple who would buy one if they could get a new one the ideal engine might be a ubaro motor such as the ones being produced for the aviation industry and you are right about operation on private property but for operation on public property all new manufacture vehicles would have to have the certification stickers on them just like snowmachines and atv's all have now its not impossoble and i think would be workable some thing i would like to do myself.

EPA certification certs start at about 300K and go up from there.

Coubroclan said:

EPA certification certs start at about 300K and go up from there.

Click to expand...

every thing is doable using a certified engine is much easyer with out a certified power plant your market will be limted as a note i don't like it i love the simplicity of the vw motor in my mind its the next best thing to a mechanical diesel and just ask your self how many buggs have you herd of running away by them selfs

I just looked on the EPA web site, there is no such thing as a 300,000 dollar certification from them, at least thats what the reply said when I sent the e-mail, sure would love to see that link he is talking about, if someonebuilt a machine in say Idaho USA, and shipped it to Japan, where would the EPA fall into the picture ??? thay wouldn't.....

Clifford said:

I just looked on the EPA web site, there is no such thing as a 300,000 dollar certification from them, at least thats what the reply said when I sent the e-mail, sure would love to see that link he is talking about, if someonebuilt a machine in say Idaho USA, and shipped it to Japan, where would the EPA fall into the picture ??? thay wouldn't.....

Click to expand...

I have a novel idea why do't you try to imort a bunch ou no certified bug motors and put your self together a shop in idaho and start building new snow tracs. i would love to see them built again i would also like to be a part of said venture but i'm not going to risk my familys welfare on a unplanned scheem you might not like what i have told you afout emissions and safety certifications if you want a full market both recreational and comercial in coast to coast than you comply otherwise your market will limited hard to make money that waynow i gave you my 2 cents worth i'v been in this buisness for 25 years and have seen a lot of change i alse keep up on the future and there will be a lot of change comming its just the way it is. and big buisnes wants it that way.

Why would I open up a shop in Idaho ??? you can but vw motors right here in the U.S.A. or a Subaru motor if you want....... I dont think its that difficult, we have access to VW engines, its pretty simple, the design is simple also.

i love my snow trac just the way it is i'ts simple reliable and easy to work on when aktiv was selling them the dealer ships were making big bucks on mark up because the only thing in its class was the bombi i don't believe the proffits are there now to justify starting a manufctureing facility with all the safety and emmisions requirements that uncle sam has forced down everybodys throats to protect the stupid it might be a worth wile project for some one in the buisness to pick up on and expand there market just look at the companys that have failed trying to produce a new updated cushman trackster. i still think its a good idea and would love to be involved in something like that if the project was ever taken on.again it would take a good minded buisness man to raise the capitol and run the company if you were to be proffitable. check with boggie when he is getting back he is about to get into something like this a final note it's a good idea and i would like to see it happen you just need all your ducks in a row.

I have to admit, one of the key reasons for my interest in the Snow Trac is to investigate the feasibility of producing them again. But Don (dds) has an important important point, I wouldn't risk my families welfare without a well thought out business plan. Making a product is the easy part, profitability is an entirely different game.

dds said:

i don't believe the proffits are there now to justify starting a manufctureing facility with all the safety and emmisions requirements that uncle sam has forced down everybodys throats to protect the stupid

Click to expand...

I really wonder if life would not be simpler if we just bought stuff, signed a waiver that reads "I promise not to act like a friggin 'tard and enter the Dawrin Award competition with this product"

I think it would be a good idea if someone could get through the red tap so to speak like a few of you guys have stated, we just are thinking it would be a good fit with our small tool & die and machine shop....

CLIFFORD,
You are right in thinking the Snow Trac and Master would be an excellent snowcat to reproduce. I have been involved in doing that for the last two years. I also read about somone saying it would cost 300K to get an EPA certificate. Thats not exactly right but then again I could have been not reading his post correctly. IT DOES cost about 300K to have your engine tested and then if it passes you get an EPA certified engine. How it works is something like this. I had found several engine I wanted to install in the new "Snow Track". When you go to the engine manufacturers like GM (GM INDUSTRIAL) you see there nice brochures say 129 HP at 6000 rpm and 158 Ft lbs at 3500 rpm. Yah thats nice you think. Perfect engine. OH and its already certified. Then when you talk to the authorized GM OEM companies (not affiliated with GM) You get a little lesson in there so called certified factory engines. THEY the OEM dealer will only have that exact same engine certified at 3,000 rpm. That takes away from the HP and Torque needed to have a GOOD transplant into the new Snow Track. So after a month of searching and talking I was able to get them to re certif it for 3,800 RPM at a cost to me of $50,000. They wont certify any higher. PERIOD! Well as you can imagine it worked but wasnt any better than the AIRCOOLED vw ENGINE IN PERFORMANCE AND WAS HEAVIER! So back to the drawing board. Meanwhile I have spent in excess of 300,000 for my panels and frames and automatic trans axles new style variator. Still no engine. I finally found the perfect engine but she was not EPA certifed. So after several exhausting and VERY frustarating calls to everyone in the EPA you could imagine I found the key. I was given the names of a very few companies that test and certify the engines for the desired usage. In shor what they do is take your engine and set it up on a dyno and start her up. One year later...YES ONE YEAR LATER of constant running and 300K i have my EPA certifed engine for industrial use. Back in the 60s I could have used any engine manufactured anywhere in the world. No crippiling regulations or red tape to deal with. That is simply not the case here anymore. In fact this is the very reason why we dont see the small guy making it as much anymore. The more rules and regulations the more big Corporate America has the upper hand. They have the funds and the lawyers to make it. Anyway my first production Snow Track will be available in about a year. My patents have been filed and the final testing is being conducted. I wish it was more like how you percieved it to be Clifford. I really do.

I guess Lyndon knows Bob Persons pretty well. He speaks 5 languages fluently and is a very knowledgable man. He has several other companies going very strong. Chrsitor Morland has some of if not most of the original blue prints. I was lucky enough to get copies of the original years ago. Not sure anymore who has them but suspect Christor still has his but not sure since I havent talked to him in at least 3 years.

thats nice i wish you lts of luck how much of the new will interchange with the old i ask this because i'm not in a rush to go and buy a new one but would love to keep my old one on the road .

Clifford said:

All the history on these machines is very interesting, but has Mr Persons ever said what was the final demise of the snow Trac line or what happened to the original plans for the machines ? just curious Thanks

Click to expand...

According to Bob: The US military let a Request for Development for a NEW machine out that all the snow cat manufacturers were competing for. AKTIV built a "One-Off", entirely new, possibly hydraulic machine and submitted it for testing. The new Snow Trac would have been a much more Heavy-Duty machine that they could also sell as a groomer to ski areas, and would have been competitive with Bombardier, Tucker, & Thiokol. The newly formed branch of Volvo submitted the prototype to what became the BVXXX(BV202?,) later Haglund, and it won the competition. AKTIV had intended to Re-Tool to produce an entirely newer, more advanced machine. The cost of re-tooling and development would have been covered by the US Millitary contract if they had of gotten the contract.

Around the same time VW stopped producing their car and AKTIV had a hard time getting engines and transaxels. Bob also went on to say that had they have known that VW was continuing to produce cars in Brazil & Mexico, that they probably would have continued producing Snow Trac's. Snow Trac's were by far the most economical snow cat on the market and sold fairly well. The next nearest machine price wise was over twice the price ranging to 4 times the price so they had a special niche on the market.
A ski area in Washington State purchased a new ST4 in the 60's. They contacted famed VW GRURU Gene Burg to inquire about having a supercharger fitted to the machine. He said it would be expensive, the Ski area said:" that doesn't matter, the next cheapest machine cost 3 times as much".... Gene Burg told me the story himself.
A dealer of Bombardier equipment that is now gone, said that the wholesale cost to him of a Snow Trac, less that 4000$ in the 60's, made it easy to sell even if you marked it up 150% because the cheapest Bombardier they handeled was 60,000$ He went on to tell me that this made them easy to sell.
The Purchasing Agent for Canadian National Railways(of which the Canadian Phone Company is a subsidiary, and the single largest purchaser of Snow Tarc's) said he paid about 17,000$ for one of the last Snow Masters ever produced, the dealer that sold it to him admitted that their cost was significantly lees,... like half, and yes, I got this information straight fro the horses mouth too..
I rest my case.

Wow Lyndon. You must have been a VERY good friend of Bob Persons indeed. I didnt know anyone else knew that! We should meet sometime and exchange stories!

Lyndon,
The 60s sure were the GOLDEN years! If anyone knew the absolute nightmare we have gone through and the capitol spent to get our engine certified would cringe. But its finally done and we should see unit rolling off the line this time next year. I will even have a unit at the next Snowcat shootout next year in Leadville.