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Gordon's ugly green ST4 wreck turned into a beautiful Snow Trac
- Thread starter gordon robertson
- Start date
Gordon, if your having trouble posting the restoration pics I'd be glad to resize them so they fit here on FF. I've been waiting to see the finished pics, but guessing your having trouble posting them. ......or are you just starting this project?
If you need help resizing just email the pics to doc@forumsforums.com (this goes for anyone with pic posting problems. I'll resize and send them back to you to post.)
If you need help resizing just email the pics to doc@forumsforums.com (this goes for anyone with pic posting problems. I'll resize and send them back to you to post.)
gordon robertson
New member
Well it all started with a $1.00 allowance and a .50 cent match box - lost in space ( the 1960's tv. show helped as well). they had this cool tracked vehicle which i always wanted to drive. I thought I was the new will robinson - in liue of robertson ... ha! funny but prob. not far from the truth . our toys do get bigger...
purchased the 1964 st4 in midlands- england and had it trucked to southhampton and then shipped to new jersey and trucked to cold spring new york .. sat there for two weeks while family and friends attempted to fig. out what crazy project i have attempted . wife took one step out the front door and went in without a word.. but then again they didn't own a .50 cent snow trac. when we started I didn't know which of my snow trac's was worth the .50 cents . its now been almost 3 years of constant building , most parts including the roof and fenders and interior parts have all been re-fabricated out of high end industrial aircraft alum. cleats are custom made stainless being laser cut / drilled by IBM . but they don't know it.... thanks to christor and his site i have replaced every bearing and part possible ,and obtained info from mr mezel in north pole ak. why did i replace everything well ....... becouse it sure did need it... look at it .. poor looking thing, only my three sisters are uglier
Gordon Robertson more later....1/30/06
ok. bob how do i put on the rest of the photo's ? don't worry i will only supply photo's of my snow trac - no siblings.....
purchased the 1964 st4 in midlands- england and had it trucked to southhampton and then shipped to new jersey and trucked to cold spring new york .. sat there for two weeks while family and friends attempted to fig. out what crazy project i have attempted . wife took one step out the front door and went in without a word.. but then again they didn't own a .50 cent snow trac. when we started I didn't know which of my snow trac's was worth the .50 cents . its now been almost 3 years of constant building , most parts including the roof and fenders and interior parts have all been re-fabricated out of high end industrial aircraft alum. cleats are custom made stainless being laser cut / drilled by IBM . but they don't know it.... thanks to christor and his site i have replaced every bearing and part possible ,and obtained info from mr mezel in north pole ak. why did i replace everything well ....... becouse it sure did need it... look at it .. poor looking thing, only my three sisters are uglier
Gordon Robertson more later....1/30/06ok. bob how do i put on the rest of the photo's ? don't worry i will only supply photo's of my snow trac - no siblings.....
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Snowcat Operations
Active member
Gordon can you post a few pictures of your stainless cleats? Thanks!
gordon robertson
New member
B_Skurka said:
thanks for all the help bob.. hey what do you call a guy with no legs or arms swimming...... thanks bob....
well lets see , when my mother told me to clean my room she said to always start at the bottom and under my bed. well.. we need to get right to the bottom of this thing . so we spent a few day ripping this ugly thing apart... infact we even took the parts apart... most of the body parts where duplicated. computer scanned and cnc cut and rolled ... good thing for computer tech... yet i still have trouble getting the balance of my pictures on this site . frame sand blasted and primed . we found that the rustolem rusty metal primer holds up to anything even with out a top coat... strong stuff. then painted with dupont . . all bolts have been replaced with stainless... the floor was cut /duplicated and west systemed (epoxy).
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gordon robertson
New member
B_Skurka said:
we were able to locate new bearings, wheels , belts, tracks , decals and oem tools from alaska . we found tires in china , we had custom cushins made ... ooops sorry the photos are not there yet.. as i noted prior all the cleats where stainless also mfg by IBM who would of know... computers and snow tracs
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Snowcat Operations
Active member
Gordon,
I am currenty trying to source tires and tubes for us.. Can you help with your China tire connection? Thanks.
I am currenty trying to source tires and tubes for us.. Can you help with your China tire connection? Thanks.
gordon robertson
New member
going through my records and invoices i have found a bunch of interesting materials and some part sorces that may be of some interest .. i will scan same on monday and attempt to attach . also have spec.s on cleats which will save a fabricator tons of time... and allow you to alter to your taste.....
talking about cleats , when these things came apart as you can see , i never thought I would get them back in place... I can't tell you how heavy all these items where , new stainless was not that much more in weight. but when you have all this stuff in the back of a f150 wow.... the power steering has power steering..... grr...
we were luck and scored new belting in alaska . and everything lined right up but dragging it around was a chore.... grr
i would like to thank bob for all his efforts in getting this site and people together ... its always nice to know that we are not all crazy as the def. of crazy is " out side the norm of usual activity" well it seems some of us are
very normal within this site... also there are a lot of understanding women and for our new woman visitor a man or two also understanding i would hope... .... grr
talking about cleats , when these things came apart as you can see , i never thought I would get them back in place... I can't tell you how heavy all these items where , new stainless was not that much more in weight. but when you have all this stuff in the back of a f150 wow.... the power steering has power steering..... grr...
we were luck and scored new belting in alaska . and everything lined right up but dragging it around was a chore.... grr
i would like to thank bob for all his efforts in getting this site and people together ... its always nice to know that we are not all crazy as the def. of crazy is " out side the norm of usual activity" well it seems some of us are
very normal within this site... also there are a lot of understanding women and for our new woman visitor a man or two also understanding i would hope... .... grr
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Gordon, you & I have discussed your CLEATS via email, but I thought it might be interest to other folks.
Your cleats are stainless steel and, to my eye very aggressive. Now while I love the idea of stainless steel, I wonder if your Snow Trac will not gain so much traction from those cleats that you might actually drive off your tracks if they get 'to good' of a grip into something.
Now I'll admit I drive mine on grass so grip is an issue. Grass does not slip like snow, sand, or ice or gravel. I've almost driven right off of my right track a few times. So I am very cautious on grass when turning.
My ST4 uses the standard shape track cleat, which is tapered. PHOTO BELOW
Perhaps someone with more Snow Trac experience can chip in with some real life experiences? Villi, Bjorn, Dan, Jock, etc . . . can you folks help us out? Is "too much grip" a bad thing in some select conditions?
Your cleats are stainless steel and, to my eye very aggressive. Now while I love the idea of stainless steel, I wonder if your Snow Trac will not gain so much traction from those cleats that you might actually drive off your tracks if they get 'to good' of a grip into something.
Now I'll admit I drive mine on grass so grip is an issue. Grass does not slip like snow, sand, or ice or gravel. I've almost driven right off of my right track a few times. So I am very cautious on grass when turning.
My ST4 uses the standard shape track cleat, which is tapered. PHOTO BELOW
Perhaps someone with more Snow Trac experience can chip in with some real life experiences? Villi, Bjorn, Dan, Jock, etc . . . can you folks help us out? Is "too much grip" a bad thing in some select conditions?
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Snowcat Operations
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Well Bob,
I can tell you the first thing I was told by the guy I bought my Snow Master from was not to try and turn on grass. He explained how he walked right out from one of his tracks! Mine are about 12" wider but thats alot more traction. Maybe like that with those great looking stainless cleats Gordon has. But if you look there are two extra holes on each of his cleats. If I was going to be driving on grass or a road I would simply bolt some doug fir 2x2 trimed to fit and have some fun. I bet a 2x4x8 stud could be trimed up on a table saw and yeild quite a few wooden cleats. You would have to cut a recess groove for the drive sprocket which should be easy. If you wanted something that would last longer go with oak or some other hardwood. Pricey though.
I can tell you the first thing I was told by the guy I bought my Snow Master from was not to try and turn on grass. He explained how he walked right out from one of his tracks! Mine are about 12" wider but thats alot more traction. Maybe like that with those great looking stainless cleats Gordon has. But if you look there are two extra holes on each of his cleats. If I was going to be driving on grass or a road I would simply bolt some doug fir 2x2 trimed to fit and have some fun. I bet a 2x4x8 stud could be trimed up on a table saw and yeild quite a few wooden cleats. You would have to cut a recess groove for the drive sprocket which should be easy. If you wanted something that would last longer go with oak or some other hardwood. Pricey though.
Snowcat Operations
Active member
Bob,
I dont believe his Snow Trac has a sun roof.
I dont believe his Snow Trac has a sun roof.
gordon robertson
New member
your correct bob , no sun roof ... just don't need a tan.... since all the body panels etc. are new fabrication no sun roof.... the real story is my wife likes to hang out limo sun roofs so i thought i would limit her champain bottle tossing abilities....
i was also planning on maintaining a seperate full time roof basket... so no need for the extra costs...or the possibility of leaks... bob has not yet posted any photos of my lights but we went to rear flush lcd. lights on the tail and custom stainless for the front and roof... still thinging about a teardrop... but need to find one first..... cushins located on the roof are not for roof touring but for the interior.... custom black sun-brella with closed cell foam... .. you could sleep on these ... however , wife continues to remind me of this.... we have now purchase a gps. and a dash mount. this will attach to a ibm lap top with will also be mounted and will connect directly to gps for large viewing .... the interior has been given new custom hand rails - grabs for each side of the bench seating ... interior navication lights have been added for night vision . " go to red boys..." something from my sailing days..... we have also mounted night vision monocular ( sorry about the spelling ) on that one ..... roof rack will gain newly purchased ax & shovel mounts being painted tonight.... still looking for huge skis to design a tag behind camping trailer with pop roof. type of roof tents you see on landrovers... talk later.... grr
i was also planning on maintaining a seperate full time roof basket... so no need for the extra costs...or the possibility of leaks... bob has not yet posted any photos of my lights but we went to rear flush lcd. lights on the tail and custom stainless for the front and roof... still thinging about a teardrop... but need to find one first..... cushins located on the roof are not for roof touring but for the interior.... custom black sun-brella with closed cell foam... .. you could sleep on these ... however , wife continues to remind me of this.... we have now purchase a gps. and a dash mount. this will attach to a ibm lap top with will also be mounted and will connect directly to gps for large viewing .... the interior has been given new custom hand rails - grabs for each side of the bench seating ... interior navication lights have been added for night vision . " go to red boys..." something from my sailing days..... we have also mounted night vision monocular ( sorry about the spelling ) on that one ..... roof rack will gain newly purchased ax & shovel mounts being painted tonight.... still looking for huge skis to design a tag behind camping trailer with pop roof. type of roof tents you see on landrovers... talk later.... grr
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gordon robertson
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"HONEY I'M HOME"
I THINK THIS SUMS UP THE PASSION WE HAVE ALL DEVELOPED FOR OUR SNOW TRACS..... PLUS IT SERVES AS A WARNING TO THE WOMEN IN OUR LIFE NOT TO GET BETWEEN A MAN AND HIS SNOW TRAC...
FEW EXCEPTIONS....
had this made about a year ago and will be mouted inside the rear door or should i say the only door... serves as a warning ...
I THINK THIS SUMS UP THE PASSION WE HAVE ALL DEVELOPED FOR OUR SNOW TRACS..... PLUS IT SERVES AS A WARNING TO THE WOMEN IN OUR LIFE NOT TO GET BETWEEN A MAN AND HIS SNOW TRAC...
FEW EXCEPTIONS....
had this made about a year ago and will be mouted inside the rear door or should i say the only door... serves as a warning ...
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gordon robertson
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well photos are better then words , this dust covered st4 is closer to getting out the door , i will attempt to provide more current photos of interior and some extra's now being installed... i am sure you all will get a kick out of it. i see that bob has posted some photos of the newly welded basket for skis and snow shoe's hopefully i will not need to use either and will just delivering friends to far off lands... i found that the lcd lights are brighter less of a drain on the elec. system and bright as hell.... plus add that sleek look ... i am sure if they where mfg. st4's today that would be the way to go....
still looking for large skis should anyone have any ideas for a trailer .... hey this projects coming to an end need something else to work on... grr
still looking for large skis should anyone have any ideas for a trailer .... hey this projects coming to an end need something else to work on... grr
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Snowcat Operations
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Use W highway gaurdrail. The guards should be centered or spaced as wide as your boggies (centered on boggies). Get the guards with both ends flared.
http://www.idealshield.com/HighwayGuardrail.asp
http://www.idealshield.com/HighwayGuardrail.asp
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gordon robertson
New member
that's a great idea !!!!!!!!!!! thats what this site is all about... bob will provide some new ideas from old machines i came up with however the guard rail would be very strong..... time to call the highway dept....
thanks again... grr
thanks again... grr
gordon robertson
New member
gordon robertson said:
no thats not zz tops thats john purdy one of the best restorationists of snow tracs in the country ... ???? wonder how many of those are out there ?
the guy in red is just the design guy ... and the one with all the teeth is just a photo of one of my sisters....
gordon robertson
New member
what a great idea , thanks , guess i need to contact my local highway dept. this is exactly what this site is all about... thanks again.. gordon robertson
gordon robertson
New member
gSnowcat Operations said:
GREAT IDEA ,,, THANK YOU.... GRR
gordon robertson
New member
gordon robertson said:
JOHN PURDY, GORDON ROBERTSON , AND THE ONE WITH THE TEETH IS JUST A PICTURE OF ONE OF MY THREE SISTERS...
Snowcat Operations
Active member
Gordon,
The Highway guard rail will simply out perform anything else premade! The trailer will track right behind you even if your crabin a side slope. On side hilss it will track beautifully! Not bad for Highway Guard rail. You will also want a pintle hitch. NOT THE BALL TYPE! At least here we have alot of hills and slopes that will go far beyond the flex of a ball hitch. Hope this helps.
(this idea was given to me buy a friend who builds snowcat trailers that sell for 15K!)
The Highway guard rail will simply out perform anything else premade! The trailer will track right behind you even if your crabin a side slope. On side hilss it will track beautifully! Not bad for Highway Guard rail. You will also want a pintle hitch. NOT THE BALL TYPE! At least here we have alot of hills and slopes that will go far beyond the flex of a ball hitch. Hope this helps.
(this idea was given to me buy a friend who builds snowcat trailers that sell for 15K!)B_Skurka said:
Hi Gordon and Bob,
I'm so glad I found this forum today! Looking at your frame-up restoration, I thought I had replaced a ton of bolts. If I never see another Phillips-head bolt with a lock nut again, it'll be too soon. "Bolt, meet Mr. Angle Grinder."
About cleats.. the original cleats are made of a spring steel, which is both strong and resilient. Honestly not sure how your stainless measures up in comparison. I'm sure it depends on the alloy. They sure look good though! Please share how they hold up after they've had some break-in time.
I'll also be building some new cleats this spring. My plan is to use 8120 square tube stock(for the round edges), attach a jig to cut the taper, and go at it with my new plasma cutter. I have one cleat that looks as though it was zinc plated, that is holding up nicely, so I may be purchasing a home plating kit from Eastwood.
Too much grip? When I bought my ST-4, it came with 2" paddles welded to every other cleat. My experience was to either drive out of the track(now I carry a high-lift jack) , or worse, one of the drive cogs would skip, causing premature wear and rounding of the brass teeth.. Both problems have disappeared since I cut off the paddles and I'm back to tapered cleats.
As far as the sled-trailer, the guard rail is an interesting idea for skis. If I can come up with some interesting ideas, I'm going to build one out of aluminum this summer. Being that I have to drive stretches of dry highway on occasion, and having seen only one sled trailer ever, I'm going to steal an idea from this one found on Tim Wafer's page and use tires as well as skis.
-Jon
(http://www.timwafer.com/snocat.html)
gordon robertson
New member
great details thanks , think i have some new designs that you'll all get a kick out of however, we will need to keep it quite as the wife is now viewing this site.. will have some fun with this....
Hey Gordon, how about an update? 
You were going to modify the tracks. We've still not seen the interior. You were building a custom trailer to tow the Snow Trac on. You were also working on a camping trailer. Any progress on those things?
You were going to modify the tracks. We've still not seen the interior. You were building a custom trailer to tow the Snow Trac on. You were also working on a camping trailer. Any progress on those things?